Opinions on MMR vaccinations for children

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I agree that the immune systems of infants are too premature to receive 4 immunizations at once. However, children are given so many other immunizations prior to their first birthday.

 

I admire Obama for including in his public health agenda funding for autism research. I will post that link tomorrow on his autism proposal as it's on my computer in my office. I think I remember something about him wanting to continue to research if there's a link with the immunizations.

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Having said that, I keep hearing about MMRV with chicken pox included. I think a quadruple vaccine is far too many toxins at once for a small body, and I have serious concerns about the chicken pox vaccine versus getting chicken pox naturally and itching for a couple of days. I'd prefer to work on a single-vaccine schedule than have them all at once even if it does mean some extra shots.

Triple or quadruple, doesn't bother me a bit. However, I do agree that chicken pox is probably a waste of a vaccine. As for single shots, the evidence is clear: kids are far more likely to get that one shot than they are three separate ones. Thus the single injection wins hands down and that is strictly the economics of it.

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But is this really in the best interest of children's health? This in my opinion is more consistent with our expedient life philosophy.

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As for single shots, the evidence is clear: kids are far more likely to get that one shot than they are three separate ones.

Not while scaremongers are telling everyone that the MMR will turn your kids into autistic zombies...

 

If it was a matter of convenience I'd have my kid vaccinated with the triple vaccine and make sure it caught chicken pox from somewhere quite early on. It's less convenience for me than it is simply that it's a lot of live vaccine all at once, and I'd prefer the kid to have six days of feeling a bit crap than two days of feeling utterly rancid. I don't believe in the MMR-autism connection, but I'd still prefer that the shots be administered separately.

 

Re: flu jab:

 

It's not recommended for everyone (only really asthmatics, children and the elderly), and it only protects against the most likely strain of flu to be prevalent in that season. That's another waste of a vaccine, and I'm highly suspicious of anyone outside the high-risk groups who gets it.

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why does everyone seem to assume a baby's immune system is weaker than an adults? I always thought it was the other way round?

 

Sure, babies' immune sytems have been less exposed to viruses and pathogens than an adults' immune system, purely by dint of the short time they have spent exposed to the rest of humankind. Their immune systems are therefore less 'educated'. But there is an abundance of evidence that infant immune systems are better equipped to 'learn' immunity much faster than an adult immune system can, which is why infancy is such an ideal time for immunisation.

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Re: flu jab:

 

It's not recommended for everyone (only really asthmatics, children and the elderly), and it only protects against the most likely strain of flu to be prevalent in that season. That's another waste of a vaccine, and I'm highly suspicious of anyone outside the high-risk groups who gets it.

As a diabetic, I also have to get it now. It is rec'd for children in the USA, but our German doc said no, not here. So Jr just had the flu, but I did not. :rolleyes:

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Thanks, LR. I told the German ped to back off when he insisted on jabbing Jr for meningitis. The German "schedule" and the American "schedule" are different... so which one is "right"? I have a friend here who is not immunizing her 2nd kid, at least not yet, and she had a very hard time finding a doctor who would respect her wishes.

My kid started out on the American schedule when he was born. When we came to DE, because of some confusion over the two schedules and what he had already and didn't have, he never got a meningitis immunization. And... wait for it... he got meningitis. And nearly died. I am curious, mlovett about why you didn't want your son vaccinated against meningitis? I certainly wish I had. Thank God my son made it through, it was touch and go for a while.

 

Basically, I think any serious disease that has a potentially high fatality rate that can be immunized for should be. I definitely count meningitis among those. I do not count chicken pox among those. In fact, I think it is counter-intuitive to vaccinate children against a disease that is relatively minor in children, yet much more dangerous in adults. My son had chicken pox at 4 and barely noticed. I had chicken pox at 21 and was seriously ill and developed pneumonia which required hospitalization. Anecdotal, surely, but not uncommon or unproven; chicken pox is much more dangerous in adults than children.

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The human immune system processes information (attacks) constantly. You are being exposed to new and wonderful bugs all the time and many many simultaneously. It is up to the antigen presenting cells to filter that information and go forward with a proper T or B cell response. Your filtering system has more than enough APCs to take care of the load.

 

As for the statistics of single versus multi-valent vaccines, yes I am absolutely positive that it is in the best interest of the child. The data proves the vaccination rate is substantially higher since the introduction of multi-valent vaccines.

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Small Pox is gone because the generations before us knew that we would be better off without disease and immunised themselves and their children. Polio was almost gone too, until people began to think they knew better.

 

If we want to be rid of terrible diseases we need to have herd immunity, we can't have that if too many people choose not to immunise. There are people who can't have immunisations (allergies, chemotherapy etc) and so we need those who can be immunised to have them, so that we can all protected now and for future generations.

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why does everyone seem to assume a baby's immune system is weaker than an adults? I always thought it was the other way round?

Baby's immune systems are weaker than adults because adults acquire immunity and resistance to illness and diseases over time by being exposed to pathogens. At less this is what I though I was taught in my science class in undergraduate school, but that was a very long time ago and maybe I had smoked pot prior to the lecture. :D

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As a diabetic, I also have to get it now. It is rec'd for children in the USA, but our German doc said no, not here. So Jr just had the flu, but I did not.

That's interesting. My parents are not in Germany, both diabetic, neither was offered the injection.

 

Neither of them got flu either, though. I wonder if the schedule's like that list of foods banned during pregnancy and different in every country?

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I am curious, mlovett about why you didn't want your son vaccinated against meningitis? I certainly wish I had. Thank God my son made it through, it was touch and go for a while.

My son had the HIB vaccination. He isn't due for a booster until he starts school, but here I guess the booster is earlier. I refused (and I called doc back home to discuss).

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It's not recommended for everyone (only really asthmatics, children and the elderly), and it only protects against the most likely strain of flu to be prevalent in that season. That's another waste of a vaccine, and I'm highly suspicious of anyone outside the high-risk groups who gets it.

I don't get the flu vaccine even though I'm in the high risk group. I'm just resigned to take my chances of getting flu, than getting the immunization.

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Baby's immune systems are weaker than adults because adults acquire immunity and resistance to illness and diseases over time by being exposed to pathogens. At less this is what I though I was taught in my science class in undergraduate school, but that was a very long time ago and maybe I had smoked pot prior to the lecture.

I think you are smoking pot now (pass it over). :D

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Yeah, I never used to get the flu shot either... but considering I've had shingles twice since getting full blown diabetes (I had GDM while prego -- shock of my life), I figure my immune system is a mess and I'm not taking any chances.

 

llees, I wouldn't be surprised if prego do/don't lists are different in every country. I bet the German one is rigid! ;) [are you required to wear a winter scarf? :P]

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he never got a meningitis immunization. And... wait for it... he got meningitis. And nearly died.

My mother wasn't immunised and had polio & diphtheria at the same time. I have had the MMR vaccine before coming to Germany and did not have the diphtheria jab previously as I apparently had immunity.

This actually wasn't the case - I caught it in my final year at university and also went into isolation. It's extremely rare, but here you go: I had it.

 

That's interesting. My parents are not in Germany, both diabetic, neither was offered the injection.

Both of my parents are Type 2 Diabetics, both had the flu jab, both live in Scotland.

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Baby's immune systems are weaker than adults because adults acquire immunity and resistance to illness and diseases over time by being exposed to pathogens. At less this is what I though I was taught in my science class in undergraduate school, but that was a very long time ago and maybe I had smoked pot prior to the lecture.

go back and read what I posted. The strength of an immune system lies in its ability to learn fast and an infant immue system learns faster than an adult immune system, which is why immunisation on that scale is best administered in infancy. So that ultimately the adult who grows up from that infant will be mutiply immune.

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I admire Obama for including in his public health agenda funding for autism research. I will post that link tomorrow on his autism proposal as it's on my computer in my office. I think I remember something about him wanting to continue to research if there's a link with the immunizations.

It has already been proven that there is no simple link between immunizations and autism. My sister-in-law is an epidemiologist who works in autism research. She says it's still possible that some people might have a genetic predisposal to developing autism if certain triggers are introduced (thimerosal in vaccines could conceivably be such a trigger, for example. But it's only one of many possibilities.)

 

Finding what constitutes that predisposal and eventually developing a test for it is where autism research is going now.

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http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/MyExperienc...85/Default.aspx

This is what happens when you go looking for the truth (at least in the UK).

I'm afraid to say that pharamceutical companies only make money when people get sick so it's not in their interests to prevent disease. Incidences of disease were already falling PRIOR to the introduction of vaccinations. Your immune system keeps you healthy so why weaken it with chemicals, genetically modified proteins? Measles may be a killer in developing countries but shouldn't be in Westernised countries. Fatalities are as a result of improper care. Pharmaceutical companies thrive on the "fear factor" and the media go along with this. There is so much information out there, please read both sides and then make an INFORMED DECISION. It is your right.

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