Opinions on MMR vaccinations for children

1,235 posts in this topic

You've maybe chosen a bad example?

 

 

Intussusception can occur spontaneously in the absence of vaccination. Of the reported 28 cases of intussusception, the number that may have been caused by the vaccine, or occurred by coincidence, is unknown...

 

The number of intussusception cases reported to date after RotaTeq administration does not exceed the number expected based on background rates of 18-43 per 100,000 per year for an unvaccinated population of children ages 6 to 35 weeks

So there were some cases of intussusception after RotaTeq was given, but no more than would be expected in any particular study group.

 

And from this I should conclude that RotaTeq is in some way causing intussusception or that vaccinating my child with RotaTeq increases its chance of intussusception?

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The book "What your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccines" was also reviewed here.

 

 

It is a riddled throughout with junk science, junk medicine, and voodoo therapies. The parade of factoids and nonsense fairly dance off the page.

...

Dr. Cave's book is widely regarded as "balanced". Dr. Cave earns this designation, apparently, because she does not advocate abandoning the vaccine program altogether. If this book is what passes for "balance" in the vaccine debate, we are all in a great deal of trouble.

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

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One of the Anti-Rota-vaccines had been retired from the market in 1999 because of an association between the vaccine and intussusception (Rotashield). In 2006/2007, two new vaccines have been approved by the authorities (Rotateq in 2006 and Rotarix in 2007). In order to evaluate the risk of intussuceptions, safety studies had to be performed which specifically investigated the risk of intussuceptions (round 70.000/60.000 participants in each of the studies). There was no difference concerning the incidence of intussuceptions between the placebo group and the group receiving the study drug, the overall incidence of intussuceptions in both studies was very low.

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The book "What your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccines" was also reviewed here.

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

sorry to be so late.. my child is sick, and Im giving him *gasp* paracetamol and ibuprofen!!

 

that article was the most unbelievable I have ever read! seriously, where did you find it??

 

first it is known that metals found in vaccines are toxic to the body, esp. of a developing child, thats why they tell pregnant women and children to limit certain fish, and to not eat certain ones all together.. second, the article states that a babies immune sytem is not immature, as Cave believes.. that statement is false. thats why breastmilk contains all of the antibodies that it does..

 

and lastly, have you ever done any vaccine research yourself? do you know what kinds of ingredients are in vaccines? and no, not from Cave, but from the actual vaccine inserts?? did you know they contain, merccury, aluminum, antifreeze, formeldahyde, some contain pig or cow tissue, and there are even some that are cultured using the cells of aborted babies (again, not from Cave, but the actual inserts)??

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sorry to be so late.. my child is sick, and Im giving him *gasp* paracetamol and ibuprofen!!

But not at the same time, I hope. :o

 

My kids have had all the vaccinations offered and recommended by our pediatrician. They have now reached the ripe old ages of 12 and 15 without further incident.

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and lastly, have you ever done any vaccine research yourself? do you know what kinds of ingredients are in vaccines? and no, not from Cave, but from the actual vaccine inserts?? did you know they contain, merccury, aluminum, antifreeze, formeldahyde, some contain pig or cow tissue, and there are even some that are cultured using the cells of aborted babies (again, not from Cave, but the actual inserts)??

Ah, the old "toxins in vaccines" canard.

 

Lets just take some of these assertions shall we?

 

Start with mercury: many vaccines were, and some still are, preserved using thimerosal or ethyl mercury. If you read the NIAID Research website you will learn that this is a form of organic mercury (as opposed to the pure metal or inorganic salt forms). Unlike the other forms (particularly methyl mercury), there is no evidence that this organic form accumulates in the body. Indeed, the results of a study funded by the NIAID and published in The Lancet are worth repeating here:

 

 

* Mercury levels in blood and urine were low in all infants studied and, in many cases, too small to measure. There was no observed dose-dependent relationship between the level of thimerosal received through vaccination and the level of mercury in the body.

* Mercury levels in blood did not exceed, at any time, the blood levels that correspond to Environmental Protection Agency guidelines for exposure.

* Mercury levels in the stool of infants receiving vaccines containing thimerosal were relatively high compared to mercury levels in the stool of infants who were not exposed to thimerosal, providing evidence that mercury from thimerosal is eliminated in the stool of infants.

In other words, having vaccinations containing thimerosal did not alter the blood and urine levels of mercury in infants, in no case was there an excess amount of mercury detected and the mercury derivatives in the vaccines were effectively shat out by the infants who did have the vaccinations, the same as anything number of substances when taken to excess.

 

Even despite the lack of any evidence of harm, as a precautionary measure thimerosal has since 1999 been phased out of all vaccines forming part of the standard childhood vaccination programme in the US, and many other countries. It may still be present in adult/adolescent vaccines and in non-recommended childhood vaccines, but as detailed above this is still nothing to worry about.

 

For the second one, lets take the foetal tissue issue: cells from an aborted fetus were used to originate cultures used to manufacture chicken pox vaccine and MMR vaccine. Since then, an MMR vaccine has been developed without cells from an aborted foetus, but the chicken pox vaccine is still made with the same cell line. Cells were taken from an aborted foetus in the mid-60s, and these cells have lived on for decades in culture vats. It's not as though a fresh foetus is used for every new batch of the vaccine - the cell cultures are simply farmed from the original few cells. I fail to see how this is a terrible thing - whatever your moral take on abortion, the fact is that abortions take place and that there are therefore aborted foetuses (foetii?). Given this, the fact that one of these has benefited vast numbers of people by contributing in a small way to the production of vaccines (and others may also be used in medical research) is surely a good thing - it's not as if the abortion took place specifically in order to provide a foetus for medical research, which morally would be highly dubious.

 

Further, lets look at formaldehyde: this (as well as a few other things) is very well explained here*:

 

 

formaldehyde used in vaccines does not have the same chemical properties as the formaldehyde mixtures used in building materials or the burial process... Vaccines utilize formaldehyde that is identical to the substance found naturally in our bodies as a metabolic byproduct of methanol. (It is commonly excreted in our urine as waste or converted into formalin)...

Formaldehyde in our bodies = H2CO (natural)

Formaldehyde in vaccines = H2CO (synthetic)

Formaldehyde in embalming fluid = H2CO+CH3OH+CH3CH2OH+solvents

Formaldehyde in plywood = H2CO+NH2CONH2+CH3OH+HCOOH+H2O

In other words, there's formaldehyde and formaldehyde, and that which is in vaccines is that which is naturally occuring in the human body anyway, and not the one which is used for preserving museum exhibits.

 

Finally, let's consider "antifreeze". I assume you're referring to ethylene glycol, which is one substance commonly used as the "active ingredient" in antifreeze. Ethylene glycol is apparently used during the manufacture of some vaccines (but I don't have details of which ones and exactly how to hand, and have found at least one source which says that this is false anyway), but it is certainly not present in the final vaccine. If it is used then it is similar to the finings which are used in the production of many alcoholic drinks but which are not present in the end product.

 

I could go on, but I do also have a day job, and a bit of searching should be able to help you dispel any remaining myths and half-truths.

 

* note that most of what is on "Inside Vaccines" is rubbish (and highly biased anti-vax rubbish at that), but they appear to have had a rare dose of reality whilst writing this one post. Credit where credit is due, but it would be nice if they could filter all their articles through reality rather than the usual reality by-pass.

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just because I believe in homeopathy, doesnt mean I cant be unbiased..

Yes it does and you are! I have already pointed out the inaccuracies that you have spouted whereby you suggest homeopathy as a primary cure as opposed to a secondary handling of symptoms alone. Healthy skepticism is one thing, but you are blatant in your bias against real medicine and science.

 

 

In other words, having vaccinations containing thimerosal did not alter the blood and urine levels of mercury in infants, in no case was there an excess amount of mercury detected and the mercury derivatives in the vaccines were effectively shat out by the infants who did have the vaccinations, the same as anything number of substances when taken to excess.

 

Even despite the lack of any evidence of harm, as a precautionary measure thimerosal has since 1999 been phased out of all vaccines forming part of the standard childhood vaccination programme in the US, and many other countries. It may still be present in adult/adolescent vaccines and in non-recommended childhood vaccines, but as detailed above this is still nothing to worry about.

Actually, this is not totally correct. Thimerosal was found, in the wider population, to be retained by a small group of people harboring a genetic mutation. This group is so small that it never appeared in the trial populations to any significant level. However, there is a trend to find alternative vaccine adjuvants (potency boosters) due to social, economic and pollution concerns. Producing this stuff is not altogether cheap nor is it a "clean" process. There is a major move towards White Biotech.

 

*Disclaimer: I am a scientist and I have developed a vaccine using an alternative White Biotech approach.

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Thanks for the correction, eurovol. I'm not an expert on vaccinations, but can't let blatant BS go unchallenged.

 

post-3020-1228216316.png

(from xkcd)

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"Seriously - why are there still people who believe that MMR has a link to autism when there was never any evidence of a causal link and the theory has been so thoroughly and repeatedly debunked? See e.g."

Debunked MY ASS! And in the 40's smoking was cool and healthy for you. And women douched with bleach, and red M&Ms were proven to be harmless until they were proven to cause cancer...and shall I go on???

 

Ok...so we should only believe the medical professions and not formulate our own opinions. Gee, If I had only just believed the medical folk, I would be dead!! I did my own research while I was in the hospital, and thank God for that!!! Seriously...

 

How naive it is of you to think that Doctors and Scientists are God. It is a practice, like so many other professions. And as it was said before...these Pharmaceutical companies are not in this to help people. They are in it for the money. And if you believe otherwise, good luck in life.

 

I have my own belief on this MMR matter. I believe it has to do with heavy metals. Mercury, Aluminum, etc... the fact is, they are bad for you and little baby bodies can't deal with them as well as adult bodies. We are told to avoid certain foods while we are pregnant to avoid heavy metals which could damage the baby.

 

What if those moms who already have a big stock pile of heavy metals in their systems, or eat lots of tuna during pregnancy, give birth ...this baby might be predisposed to "tip" over the edge if injected with more heavy metals. Again, this is my opinion. I am not claiming to be right...

 

I did immunize my daughter. I do think it should be done. Although, I still believe timing, and how it is done should be dependent on the child and the situation. Why is it NO LONGER possible to have the MMR done in separate shots? Because one company monopolizes the drug...be it a patent or whatever...but it is sick how much greed is behind the health and well being of our kids.

 

Just don't trust everyone. Trust your own damn instincts.

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Why is it NO LONGER possible to have the MMR done in separate shots?

It is possible. My son had his first round over a year ago, and because of a slight reaction, his paediatrician said that there was no harm in waiting another year for the second.

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I invite you to research both the use of live oral polio vaccines over the killed injection and the use of whole cell pertussis vs. attenuated as two very clear examples of profit over safety.

Oh come on Gemini, pick something that isn't in the dawn of medical and scientific advance. :rolleyes:

 

Even with the side effects of the "less desirable" methods, they saved countless lives. A lot of what we can do in the lab now, we could not even begin to imagine back in the '30s-50's when these vaccines were first introduced and WORKED!

 

May I remind you that sequencing wasn't available until the '70s and PCR until the '80s. In fact much of what we can do in the lab today could not be done prior to the '70s and the biotech revolution that occurred then.

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Debunked MY ASS!

...

And as it was said before...these Pharmaceutical companies are not in this to help people. They are in it for the money. And if you believe otherwise, good luck in life.

...

I did immunize my daughter.

Oh yes, I am in it for the money. You found me out. I guess I should just quite right now and go live in a cave with your mind.

 

At least you did something right. Now, if you could stop spreading the BS there will be room in your cave for me now that I don't have a reason to go on with my life's calling.

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Why is it NO LONGER possible to have the MMR done in separate shots?

 

 

It is possible. My son had his first round over a year ago, and because of a slight reaction, his paediatrician said that there was no harm in waiting another year for the second.

All of the doctors have told me, as well as all of the research I have done has led me to realize that each of the vaccines (measles, mumps, and rubella) do not in fact exist as three independent vaccinations. Are you sure it was all three done independently? You mentioned, his first round...what does that mean?

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Oh yes, I am in it for the money. You found me out. I guess I should just quite right now and go live in a cave with your mind.

At least you did something right. Now, if you could stop spreading the BS there will be room in your cave for me now that I don't have a reason to go on with my life's calling.

 

no...of course one does it for money...i teach for money but do you think I purposely hurt my children in order to make a couple of extra bucks? That is my point. We are all in it for the money...but a little love never hurt nobody ;-)

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Jodessa, I think hams may have misunderstood your question and meant that it's possible to have the set of shots (each one containing the MMR combination) farther apart instead of within the recommended six week period, not that each one is given separately.

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all of the research I have done has led me to realize that each of the vaccines (measles, mumps, and rubella) do not in fact exist as three independent vaccinations.

Your research is flawed and probably biased to boot. Simple google search found this at the top of the list!

 

And here are the manufacturers:

 

MEASLES

 

Strain - Schwarz manufactured at Aventis Pasteur (FRANCE) ( Brand name Rouvax)

 

RUBELLA

 

Strain- Wistar RA 27/3 manufactured at Aventis Pasteur (FRANCE) ( Brand name Rudivax)

 

MUMPS

 

Strain - Jeryl Lynn manufactured by Merck (USA)

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I invite you to research both the use of live oral polio vaccines over the killed injection and the use of whole cell pertussis vs. attenuated as two very clear examples of profit over safety.

Isn't that like saying "When the next Flu Pandemic comes I don't want the new flu vaccine that might kill 100 people but save millions." ?

 

And of course the companies are in it for the money, but just like parasites it would be bad manners to kill the Hosts. :o

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Debunked MY ASS! And in the 40's smoking was cool and healthy for you. And women douched with bleach, and red M&Ms were proven to be harmless until they were proven to cause cancer...and shall I go on???

Yeh, and in the 40's people died of measles, mumps, rubella and polio.

 

Of all advancements and trends that society has made, only a few small proportion turned out to be really bad health wise. But just like people get worked up by a terrorist attack that kills 100 people but not about 100 people starving to death a second, people also get worked up by a kid getting autism that might possibly have a link to MMR but not about hundreds of thousands dying of completely preventable diseases.

 

So instead of "Trusting your own damn instincts", you should forget your illogical instincts, and look at the facts.

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Jodessa, I think hams may have misunderstood your question and meant that it's possible to have the set of shots (each one containing the MMR combination) farther apart instead of within the recommended six week period, not that each one is given separately.

You are correct as to my meaning. :)

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