Opinions on MMR vaccinations for children

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Immunize your child. And there is now an shot for shingles for adults. So, give the child his immunization. Also, flu shots...you think a cold is bad with it complications. Try dealing with the flu and its complications. Get the shots.

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Didn't know that there is a vacc against chicken pox. Our second daughter brought it home from school when she was about 7, then on exactly the "last" day of the incubation time, Daughter No 1 and I both got it. It was miserable. When you have a child who is sick as well, you have to treat her first, with the bath, the soothing lotion, medication, etc, before you can sink your itching aching body into a kind bath. You know how you can look a gorilla in the eyes and think, wow he almost looks as though there's a human in there. Well that's what I looked like - almost human. It was the first time our GP had ever made a house call to us - think he felt so sorry for us zombies. Usually, the smaller the child, the less troublesome the illness. For adults it really is the pits.

 

As far as shingles goes, well my mother and her sister have both had it. My mother was "lucky" to just have it around her body but my aunt had it around her head and over her eyes. The pain remained for years and she became blind in her eighties. I don't know if the shingles might have triggered the blindness, but it certainly didn't help her quality of life.

 

Yesterday we had a vacc against pneumonia. My husband's niece is our GP and suggested it. He is fine, but I have a very sore arm and tender lymph glands. But better I suppose than getting pneumonia. (yes we have already had the flu jabs).

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If one chooses to get the flu vaccine there are two options...there is an inactivated virus in shot form , and that one can still contain mercury, and a live attenuated nasal version that is mercury free.

 

May want to read up and speak to your doc about the options, especially for children.

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Yesterday we had a vacc against pneumonia

Just to clarify, there is no vaccine against pneumonia. Pneumonia can be caused by a variety of bacteria and viruses. You had a vaccine specific against a bacteria (I am assuming you received the pneumococcal vaccine) that is a frequent cause, but certainly not the only cause, of pneumonia.

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My point is, the parents who question mostly are NOT fanatics, but .

Thats is how fanatics almost always bill themselves. They remain fanatics.

 

 

There are MANY unanswered questions surrounding vaccines

Actually, there arent really, but there are lots of people billing themselves "real concerned people trying to do the best for their children" inventing questions to ask. There are also people who swear blind that a matchbox filled with sand and random stones is protecting them from electromagnetic radiation. Somewhere, there is always someone who will believe anything.

 

 

and despite what people may think, there are not always good or even any studies showing long term safety or side effects.

And indeed almost all the studies that claimed to demonstrate damage from MMR vaccines have been proved to be either wrongly interpreted, just plain wrong or biased due to funding from anti-pharmaceutical lobbyists. There a damn sight more evidence that vaccine sin generakl and MMR in partocular doa lot of good than there ios for the opposite view.

 

 

TO QUESTION THE MEDICAL AND PHARMACOLOGICAL LOBBY IS GOOD AND PUSHES FOR SAFER VACCINES AND GREATER AND MORE TRANSPARENT STUDIES.

Questioning anything is good, as long as the answers to the questions are beneficial. Asking questions for the sake of asking them leads to paranoia.

 

 

The pharmacuetical companies do not make vaccines out of the goodness of their hearts, but for profit.

While I would be far from attempting to defend the pharmaceutical industry, suspecting someone of wanting to harm you just because they are making a profit is very silly. Admittedly, the more profit to be made, the more likely abuses are to occur, but profit-orientation isnt necessarily a grounds for suspicion on its own. Healthy skepsis perhaps ("theres no such thing as a free lunch"), but not paranoia.

 

 

I have volumes to say on the issue, but too little time. Best of luck finding a supportive doc who will do their best to answer all your concerns and questions. The Doctor Sears website is a great source of information and support.

He however is also trying to sell you his book...

 

He is honest enough to say that his preference for separating MMR is based on nothing but gut feeling and also says "I do think it’s fine to go ahead and get the whole MMR" in some cases.

 

andy M

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Just to clarify, there is no vaccine against pneumonia. Pneumonia can be caused by a variety of bacteria and viruses. You had a vaccine specific against a bacteria (I am assuming you received the pneumococcal vaccine) that is a frequent cause, but certainly not the only cause, of pneumonia.

Thanks gemini. You are without doubt correct, but don't you think you are being a tiny bit nit picking?

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Implying that those who dare to ask questions makes them fanatics in disguise, clearly shows your bias.

 

 

suspecting someone of wanting to harm you just because they are making a profit is very silly

I invite you to research both the use of live oral polio vaccines over the killed injection and the use of whole cell pertussis vs. attenuated as two very clear examples of profit over safety.

 

So asking questions and holding both the medical/government agencies and pharmaceutical companies to the best science and highest levels is in patients interests. Research, transparency, and safety...

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Sorry Spatown didn't mean to sound picky ;) Just don't want people to think they they are protected from something that they are not. There is so much false information out there.

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Yes, much as the HiB vaccine doesn't protect against all types of meningitis, just one particular strain of bacteria which can cause it, correct? [Haemophilus influenzae type B]

 

Gemini, can you tell me what other strains children are immunized against here in Germany, if any? thanks.

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ML that is correct. I am not sure about the German Schedule, but if they give meningococcal vaccine, that also is another bacterial strain covering Neisseria Meningitis C (not B strain...that vaccine is in the works). The name is a misnomer, as it does not cover all meningitis.

 

Many viruses can also cause meningitis.

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Sorry Spatown didn't mean to sound picky Just don't want people to think they they are protected from something that they are not. There is so much false information out there.

Fair enough. Just rabbiting on in lay terms. :rolleyes: (ie not totally informed!)

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Can anyone tell me what the risks are associated with the MMR vaccine - ie percentage chance of major complications and then what the same risks are for measles mumps and rubella.

 

Presumably then you;d have to muliply the chance of risk by the chances of getting the disease in the first place too.

 

Does that mean that actually the chances of serious complications from say measles are actually less than the MMR jab as there is less chance of contracting measles now?

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I didn't get vaccinated against MMR as a kid, just rubella at some time in elementary school. I then got the MMR vaccination in 2004 before I went to the States because the university there required me to have it. I never was sick much, though, I didn't get measles or mumps as a kid.

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I would rec. a book called "what your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccines", by Stephanie Cave.. It was very unbiased and has separate chapters for each vaccine

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I wouldn't rec. a book called "what your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccines", by Stephanie Cave.. It was rathervery unbiased and has separate chapters for each vaccine

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I'll admit that I've not, but based on the book title and a number of contributions of that author available on the WWW (see e.g. this and this) then I simply cannot believe that she could write an unbiased book on this subject.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps she has a web persona which spouts all sorts of wacky pseudo-science behind which there lurks somoene capable of giving impartial evidence-based advice in dead-tree publications with sensationalist titles.

 

Or perhaps, as someone who "doesn't believe in conventional medicine" and does "believe in homeopathy", your view of unbiased is not unbiased?

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just because I believe in homeopathy, doesnt mean I cant be unbiased.. and you seem very biased for implying it..

 

and if you did some research on the www. maybe you would find the book isnt what you think. It doesnt go against vaccines.. It gives facts about the diseases, vaccines, and how to reduce reactions to vaccines... as reactions DO happen.. maybe you should check out the Vaers website. and yes it does list possible problems from the vaccines, because if it didnt, it would biased, wouldnt it?

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just because I believe in homeopathy, doesnt mean I cant be unbiased.. and you seem very biased for implying it..

Quite frankly, yes, the fact that you openly display a lack of critical thinking skills in one area does make me very disinclined to believe anything you say, particularly on similar subjects.

 

I wouldn't even try to deny that there are risks of reactions to immunisations - every medicine comes with a list of ingredients (on a side-note, I had to laugh at the posters on the ICE the other day advertising some probably homeopathic cold-remedy type stuff with the immortal warning "contains: sucrose" on it), possible side-effects and an indication of their frequency. The point is that many of the claimed reactions of immunisations (e.g. the famous MMR-autism one) have no basis in fact. There is no statistical proof of a link, there is no plausible mechanism for a link. Nothing. The effects of the diseases themselves are however well-known. Ultimately it's a risk-assessment: is the risk of adverse reaction to the immunisation greater than the risk of not immunising, and are the likely side-effects of the vaccine worse than the likely effects of the disease? In order for a vaccine to be recommended it's got to have been shown that it is statistically safe, that bad side-effects are unlikely and that ultimately the risk of the vaccine is less than the risks of having the disease.

 

I assume the book you recommend also deals with the published scientific evidence (or lack thereof) of the claimed reactions, their frequency, and so on? Or is it just a collection of anecdata of the "very bad and scary things could happen" sort?

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I really dont see a connection with the dangers of sucrose vs the dangers or vaccines.. and there ARE documented reactions.. not the "scary" autism ones either.. how about encephalopathy from dtap?how about the intestinal twisting from the rotavirus vaccine.. IT even has a fda warning out now...http://www.fda.gov/cber/safety/phnrota021307.htm there are others as well..

 

and the book isnt a scaremongering kind of book.. in fact it tells you the risk of a severve reaction happening are very low..

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