Opinions on MMR vaccinations for children

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Ah, how so? The opponents point to the mercury infinitely more so than the active ingredients.

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The MMR claims are based on Wakefield's bogus study.

The thimerosal issue relates to the toxicology of mercury and has nothing to do with Wakefield's study.

The study you posted is probably one of the better designed studies on the thimerosal issue - however if you read the letters in response and following the references you will see there are lots of potential confounding factors in the toxicology of mercury which the authors of the study failed to consider.

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Just got my daughter immunized and have no concerns whatsoever. The benefits outweigh the risks by a country mile or 25,000.. I guess that makes me a thoroughly irresponsible parent. Or responsible. Or whatever.

 

I put my "blind" faith in the medical profession because I refuse to give in to the scaremongering tactics used nowadays. There is an ad running on US TV at the moment regarding the risks of autism in children - a "wonderful" piece of scaremongering that had parents running for the hills screaming how we are all gonna die. It is unbelievable that such misleading commercials get past the regulatory bodies.

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I put my "blind" faith in the medical profession because I refuse to give in to the scaremongering tactics used nowadays.

Although many people do, I wouldn't put "blind faith and trust" in this system or any other profit based system. I put my faith in trying to find out as much information as possible from multiple sources so I can make an informed decision about the health decisions that I make for myself.

 

My comment has nothing to do with the decision you made for your child, but the system itself.

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The CDC is not for profit and it's M&M reports will tell you all you need to know. ;)

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I actually don't believe for a moment that the CDC is not in part at least influenced by the pharmacutical companies. And as their "mission" is disease control, they are by definition biased in favor of vaccines/meds that control diseases, and therefore perhaps less concerned with the potential ingredients or side effects.

 

Mercury could well have absolutely nothing to do with autism, but common sense tells us that putting a known neurotoxin in vaccines and injecting them into developing brains is simply stupid. Cheaper perservative perhaps. But stupid.

 

There are also some odd and ugly other ingredients in vaccines, that again may or may not have anything to do with autism or auto-immune/chronic diseases, but the reality is that we just really don't know, as the studies are not there.

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The studies are there and the CDC is not in collusion with the pharma industry. Talk about conspiracy theories. ;)

 

Also, Thimerosal is not "mercury" per se. It is a derivative substance that was tested and found to be cleared from the body in an extremely short period of time. Many toxic substances have forms that are 100% safe. Polyacrylamide is toxic when in the wet form, but inert in the dry polymerized form as many acrylates are. Even black pepper is classified as a possible carcinogen. Only in the larger population was Thimerosal found to not be cleared by certain people with genetic alterations. People complain about the costs, but to study something to death and test it in every possible way would cost an absolute fortune and delay implementation by 3 to 10+ years.

 

Epidemiological studies are extremely difficult. We have no controlled population (I would suggest we use prison inmates, but guess what the response to that would be). For me, if there is a time point that mothers are delivering autistic children then I would look at the demographics of these mothers. We already know that the age of the mother plays a direct role in many birth defects. We also know that lifestyle prior to giving birth plays a role. If there is a sudden spike in genetically linked outcomes, then I would find out what the genetic donors were doing from birth to coupling. Everything from partying, drugs, use of sun tan beds, dietary habits to everything could be suspect. All the eggs are there to be damaged by whatever you do long before you give birth. How many of these people that want to blame the MMR vaccine popped dietary pills and OTC meds that are far less controlled than prescribed medications? Weight loss pills and anti-histamines and allergy meds all have junk in them. Hell, you can make crystal meth with that crap!

 

Want to promote better research then fine, but lets get a little reality check here. I say we start looking at faulty tanning beds that were used in the 70's and '80s that weren't supposed to give off dangerous UV rays, but in reality did and are known to damage DNA in your cells and your eggs! You could even get a very good grant to research this. This is the kind of stuff I am doing right now and in fact had a meeting on this morning. The childhood link we are looking at from occupational radiation exposure though is more in the direction of leukemia. Autism has classic genetic linkage traits and it would be a good candidate as well for DNA damage induced by occupational radiation and/or chemically induced oxidative damage.

 

In the Western World, we are also experiencing a huge increase in asthma. Is this linked to the increase in autism? There are some that want to blame our sterilized world for the increase in allergies and asthma. From lysol to detol to chlorox to sargotan we are reducing exposure to all things in an irrational fear of germs. Maybe lysol is to blame for autism as well as asthma? Putting two and two together in this kind of way isn't science. It is speculation and that is all we have evidence for with MMR and a link to autism that research thus far has not borne out. The biggest study ever was just completed on amalgam and adverse effects and guess what? Nothing was found to be conclusive. They couldn't link nothing more than what we already know. Kids born in the late '50s and early '60s went to school at a time when we were still allowing them (me) to physically handle mercury and play with it. Man, that was fun. We were exposed to the form that is almost as toxic as the vaporized form. We absorbed it directly into our skin. I don't think there was a sudden spike in autism following this. A few of my friends act a little weird, but then again so do I. :D

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EV I said "influenced" not "in collusion" :rolleyes: There IS a reason they are the largest lobbying group, as HRC well knows.

 

Also I am sure you assumed that I am WELL aware of the fact that thiomerisol is the mercury containing preservative :rolleyes:

 

The rest we are primarily in agreement about. What is causing autism can be any number of things, and we need to look beyond vaccines, while still seeking to make vaccines as safe as absolutely possible: attempt to reduce/eliminate toxic ingredients, especially aluminum and formaldehyde, consider changing the schedule to give some vaccines later in no and low risk kids (i.e. Hep B vaccine in infancy for a tested neg mom with no additional risk factors, varicella), avoid giving combination vaccines that give daily aluminum doses that can far exceed the existing U.S. safety standards (by the FDA's own reg...the FDA requires that all injectable solutions have a 25 microgram limit, and yet, many vaccines contain 225 to 850 micrograms of aluminum PER INJECTION...not counting how many they may be given on one day!)

 

As per Dr. Robert Sears, there are no studies on the aluminum absoption and excretion into the bloodstream of infants to indeed measure if Aluminum levels are toxic after vaccination. He covers this issue quite throughly and clearly in his chapter on vaccine ingredients.

 

I am NOT anti-vaccine BTW.

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The studies are there and the CDC is not in collusion with the pharma industry. Talk about conspiracy theories.

Pharmaceutical companies and the American Medical Association have very powerful lobbyist in Washington to influence public health policy to protect their interest. Eurovol you should know that.

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When it was time for my son to start his MMR jabs I did a little research. It was a while ago now (5 years) but as far as I remember it was not only the autism question, another issue is that the MMR jab is supposed to be a big shock for the immune system, might cause some inbalance (well thats what a few websites said). My son had 3 separate injections, whereby the Mumps was difficult to get, this is supposed to be better for the immune system.

 

Immunization is important, but its also important not to have too much faith in the big pharma/drugs companies. There are many things they don't tell us (negatives about many medicines that are on the market) , do some research before taking doctors advice.

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Immunizations and antibiotics are the only proven things that have allowed humanity to live such long and productive lives.

Eurovol has got it 100% right here. I find the arrogance of people who choose not to immunize astounding. They read a few conspiracy websites, and suddenly believe they know more than the medical establishment. Immunization is truly one of the marvels of modern medicine, and do treat it with such disrepect blows me away.

 

I didn't know it was the case, but I like the idea that the Australian government won't let kids into kindergardens/schools or give parents child support without being immunized. Because when you choose not to immunize your child, you're not only being irresponsible in regards to your own children, but also in regards to the general population who have been responsible and got vaccinated as you're contributing to the risk of these things mutating.

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EV I said "influenced" not "in collusion"

 

As per Dr. Robert Sears, there are no studies on the aluminum absoption and excretion into the bloodstream of infants to indeed measure if Aluminum levels are toxic after vaccination. He covers this issue quite throughly and clearly in his chapter on vaccine ingredients.

 

I am NOT anti-vaccine BTW.

I know you are not anti-vaccine. As for the aluminum, it is the adjuvent that allows the vaccine to be more effective. It is sort of a risk versus effectiveness trade off. It is not like aluminum isn't in everyday products. Aluminum pans, anti-antiperspirants, antideodorants, it is just about everywhere.

 

The CDC is not "influenced" as you say. Now if you were to say the FDA is influenced, then I would be right there with you. The CDC's purpose is altogether different and they don't get into the controversial crap and political manipulations.

 

 

Pharmaceutical companies and the American Medical Association have very powerful lobbyist in Washington to influence public health policy to protect their interest. Eurovol you should know that.

The aims of the lobbying by the Pharma's and the AMA are drastically different. They are looking at different outcomes for their efforts.

 

Multi-valent vaccines are cost effective and serve a purpose. There unfortunately are many many people who do not take their kids to the doctor for regular visits! Seriously, most health insurance in the US does not pay fully for the preventive care aspects. That is a set cost and they will not cover people having set costs. That is one of the major problems and why multi-valent vaccines have gained such importance. One visit, three shots down and only one co-payment that is ridiculously too expensive, but the insurance companies aren't in it for the long run of your health. Give a kid health insurance for life and I guarantee you that the insurance company would pay up front for all the preventative care possible because that is cheaper than the long term costs for that company.

 

As for the imbalance crap, that is a load of new psycho babel bull! Your immune systems does not get "imbalanced" from seeing more than one antigen. Your immune system can prepare and attack literally hundreds of threats and does just that every single day!

 

Polio was the only vaccination that had real problems. That was because of two competing methods. The cheaper and easier one was less safe. That was because is was a whole inactivated virus thing that wasn't always inactive. We stopped giving that a long time ago, but it was only accepted then because it was cheaper! You get what you pay for is more important a lesson than trying to get everything more cheaply. To do the shit right costs money and why skimp on you and your kids health? It is like putting a kid in your car without a car seat because the car seat costs too much. Are you an idiot or what? Hey, lets go with the worst car seat because it is the cheapest. Yeah, like that is a real solution. Same with flying and not bothering to pay for the extra seat to buckle your kid into. Take the risk, its your kid, but dammit to hell don't go misplacing the blame or looking for reasons not to do what you know you should do!

 

You get what you pay for!

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The epidemic around Rosenheim, close to the Austrian border, was all but contained until an infected child visited a Frühlingsfest, according to the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Now they have over 100 new cases on both sides of the border, Austrian medical authorities are worried about the fans due for the European Cup. Switzerland is concerned as well as they experience sporadic outbreaks of measles on a regular basis.

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Hi, my 4 year old had his first appointment today with a German pediatrician, and they want to give him his booster of MMR. In CA, he would be given this right before entering school (age 5). Can I just tell them to back off? I'd rather stick to the U.S. calendar for immunizations.

 

Also, they want to give him a meningitis vaccine. This is not routine in the U.S., and I just read about possible complications.

 

http://www.wddty.com/03363800373023279549/...l-disorder.html

 

Can I also tell them to back off on this one? It typically doesn't affect kids his age, anyway. What have other parents done regarding this particular vaccine? Just curious... thanks.

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You can. In fact, you have to give your consent, otherwise it would be "Körperverletzung" (translates as battery, assault, mayhem, pick the correct legal term).

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mlovett - Yes, it's entirely up to you if you want to have your child immunized or not. I personally would recommend doing what the doctor says, but it's your choice in the end.

 

I personally know of two young children in Germany who got menengitis. It's not that uncommon here.

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... because we will be headed back to the States maybe sooner than was originally planned. My USA ped said that my son wouldn't need any vaccines while we are here -- he is up to date. I also trust our ped back home, because his vaccines are mercury free. That is not always the case with all vaccines (those cost more).

 

Ok, after doing some reading on German sites, it seems that meningitis here can be caused by a few things. So I need to find out exactly what strain of bug they want to immunize him against. He has had the HiB vaccine, which is against Haemophilus influenzae (causes meningitis). I'm surprised they did not realize that. I need to do more research...

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My daughter got her flu vaccination three weeks ago, major drama. I didn't realize that since it was her first flu vaccination ever, she will have to get a booster. Next week. Ugh.

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