Opinions on MMR vaccinations for children

1,235 posts in this topic

I found this article out today very disturbing. Merck has already had to recall vaccine batches. This quote in particular is quite alarming

 

 

The letter also said the plant didn't have written procedures, tests or other laboratory controls to ensure "identity, strength, quality, and purity" of products.

 

FDA warns Merck to fix vaccine plant problems

 

By LINDA A. JOHNSON, AP Business Writer Wed Apr 30, 4:54 PM ET

 

TRENTON, N.J. - The Food and Drug Administration has ordered Merck & Co. to correct numerous manufacturing deficiencies at its main vaccine plant, the latest in a string of setbacks for the drugmaker. The agency on Wednesday released a warning letter sent to Merck's chief executive, Richard T. Clark, that states FDA inspectors determined manufacturing rules are not being followed at the plant in West Point, Pa., just outside Philadelphia.

 

The plant, which recalled two vaccines in December over sterility problems, makes a number of children's vaccines and four for adults.

 

The nine-page letter states FDA found "significant objectionable conditions" in the manufacture of vaccines and drug ingredients during repeated inspections from Nov. 26 to Jan. 17.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_bi_ge/merck_fda

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My daughter (age 1) went for vaccinations yesterday. We thought it was going to be the 5 in 1 but they said it was MMR so we refused as she had that 4 weeks ago

In the UK you only get 1 jab for MMR then another in 1 year. Is it different here that you get 2 MMR jabs within 1 month of each other?

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That is not the guidelines in the U.S. or U.K.

 

Good for you for not just following along but questioning and waiting.

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The German guidelines issued by STIKO (ständige Impfkommission des Robert-Koch-Instituts (RKI) recommend 2 MMR-shots for children from 11 months - 18 years. Second shot can be given 4 weeks after the first shot. For adults, only one dose is recommended. The second shot is not a booster, but to protect also those who might not have been immunised with the first shot (to close the immunization gap) .

RKI website

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edit: the CDC states it CAN be given as close as a month apart, but that is not the typical practice standard. One dose is given generally ftom 12 to 18 months and then repeated at 4 to 6 years old.

 

From the CDC

 

 

Because approximately 5% of children who receive only one dose of MMR vaccine

fail to develop immunity to measles, ACIP recommends that all states implement a

requirement that all children entering school have received two doses of MMR vaccine

(with the first dose administered no earlier than the first birthday) or have other

evidence of immunity to measles, rubella, and mumps (

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/RR/RR4708.pdf

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OK I have done some research on this and have found that the majority of coutries give the first vaccination at around 12 months (60 out of 107 that give the MMR)

The second vaccination is given around the 60-72 months (60 months 19 countries 72 months 31 countries)

There are wide variations in this ranging from 12-15 months for france to 156 months for Estonia

Germany is a country that gives the 2nd Jab early.

Only France with 1st 9-12 months and 2nd 12-15 months beats this (for countries I have heard of)

(Except for Marshall Islands and Micronesia on 12 months for 1st Jab and 13 months for the 2nd and Palau with 12 Months for the 1st and 15 months for the 2nd) - Note: only included for completeness of information!

 

Here is a selection of the dates for a few larger countries:

 

Belgium MMR 12 months; 10-13 years

Norway MMR 15 months; 12 years

Sweden MMR 18 months; 12 years

Germany MMR 11-14, 15-23 months

Switzerland MMR 12, 15-24 months

Canada MMR 12, 18 months or 4-6 years

United Kingdom MMR 13 months; 3-5 years;

Spain MMR 12-15 months; 3-6 years

Australia MMR 12 months; 4 years

New Zealand MMR 15 months; 4 years

Ireland MMR 12-15 months; 4-5 years;

United States of America MMR 12-15 months; 4-6 years

Italy MMR 12-15 months, 5-12 years (recommended)

Netherlands MMR 14 months; 9 years

 

Data is taken from the UNICEF for 2005.

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http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/global/default.htm

 

http://www.autismspeaks.org/community/foru...php/t-2306.html

 

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.html

 

I'm glad this is not an issue I have to grapple with since I'm childless. However, If I were a parent I would opt not to immunize my children. I believe in herd immunity. I counted up the immunizations the other day and there were at least 24 immunizations a child has before the age of 11.

 

With the autism rate 1/150 in the U.S I would opt not to get my child immunized until medical science does more research as to why this is an escalating epidemic in the U.S. The parents of the children I know who have autism have told me it was after the immunizations they noticed a difference in their child's behavior.

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LR, autism usually starts to be noticeable around 12-18 months, the time there is a big leap in mental and social understanding. Its timing with immunizations is a coincidence. There has only ever been one report that has linked autism with the MMR vaccine and it has been shot down by many other studies since then, along with being shown to be faulty in its own right. I agree autism is a growing issue, but I would look to factors other than immunizations.

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Immunizations and antibiotics are the only proven things that have allowed humanity to live such long and productive lives.

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However, If I were a parent I would opt not to immunize my children. I believe in herd immunity.

You do realise that the herd immunity comes because a sufficient quantity of the population are immunised? If not enough people get immunised then there is no more herd immunity and you then start to get outbreaks of diseases again, as can be observed e.g. with increasing numbers of measles outbreaks in Britain since the MMR bullshit started and the uptake of immunisations (and MMR in particular) dropped.

 

Saying you believe in herd immunity and would therefore not immunise your children is either staggeringly ignorant or staggeringly hypocritical.

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LR, autism usually starts to be noticeable around 12-18 months, the time there is a big leap in mental and social understanding. Its timing with immunizations is a coincidence. There has only ever been one report that has linked autism with the MMR vaccine and it has been shot down by many other studies since then, along with being shown to be faulty in its own right. I agree autism is a growing issue, but I would look to factors other than immunizations.

I'm very familiar with autism and I've worked over the last 25 years of my career and still do with many children with autism and autism spectrum disorders and other developmental concerns. In fact, over three days next week I will take another 9 hours class on Autism.

 

The most interesting thing you mentioned is "autism usually starts to be noticeable around 12-18 months". The first Measle Mumps and Rubella vaccination is administered at 12-15 months of age. There may not be a correlation, but one thing I know for sure there is something causing the autism epidemic and it's about time the government spend more resources to identify the cause.

 

Right now I'm involved in promoting community education and awareness of symptoms of autism so children with this disorder can be identified and diagnosed as soon as possible so they can receive early intervention services at an early age.

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Immunise your child.

IIRC from reading about the MMR vaccine it was primarily brought in as a cost saving measure. Rather than have first a measles vaccine, then a mumps, then come again a third time to the surgery for rubella the whole shooting match is done at once and also if I remember correctly the point at issue is about if this is too much for some children who have somehow weakened immune systems, or otherwise are sensitive to this relatively large dose of stuff being injected at once. If that's the case, and you are worried, then why not ask if your child can have the separate vaccines? I must admit vaccination against bad diseases that you may get exposed to does seem like a sensible move, but to add risk to save money doesn't seem so clever.

 

On another level some scientists proved recently that the best boost your child can have towards a healthy happy adult life are the minor ailments it will get from other children at playgroup, and running around in the mud outside. Other studies have proved that all these biological sterilised wipes used to remove every trace of dirt from a child's environment and make it smell nice too are probably wholly counterproductive in the long run, although it may have minor adverse side effects in the short term when the little love gets a cold. On this level I like the Daily Mash's advice.

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god. when I hear all those calling it a ' Jab' I just want to cringe, its fucking shot, a needle, not a jab! Get with the program! jabs are something something a buddy takes at you, not a trained professional! But then again, it only seems to be the Brits that call it a jab! :unsure:

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You do realise that the herd immunity comes because a sufficient quantity of the population are immunised? If not enough people get immunised then there is no more herd immunity and you then start to get outbreaks of diseases again, as can be observed e.g. with increasing numbers of measles outbreaks in Britain since the MMR bullshit started and the uptake of immunisations (and MMR in particular) dropped.

 

Saying you believe in herd immunity and would therefore not immunise your children is either staggeringly ignorant or staggeringly hypocritical.

I know what herd immunity is. As I said before, I don't have children and if I did I would opt not to inject my children with 24 or more immunizations. This is my personal view and not something I tell my clients in my professional work. For myself, other than the immunizations I had in childhood, I do not take any more immunizations, including the flu shot.

 

Proper nutrition, rest, and taking the proper precautions to prevent disease exposure, including frequent handwashing I believe helps me to prevent some of the diseases I'm exposed to. I'm exposed to quite a few diseases in the work that I do with children.

 

Furthermore, no vaccination is 100% effective against disease prevention.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

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For myself, other than the immunizations I had in childhood, I do not take any more immunizations, including the flu shot.

I was immunized as a child against MM (not against Ruebella), Polio, Tetanus (renewed), Diphteria, Typhus (worn off). I get the usual interval shots for Tetanus. I'd really consider at least Meningitis-C (got the shots by now) and perhaps Hepatitis-A/B shots nowadays (though the later is something kids should decide on their own once they get to a more self-sufficient age). Plus always Ruebella for girls (my sisters had to get the shots at teen age, and complained about it a lot).

 

Anything else is superfluous in my opinion. Sure, Typhus immunization can be useful, especially if you travel. Not what i'd consider a standard shot though, especially as it wears off quickly. Flu shots are for paranoid people. Pneumonia shots? What for?

 

I had whooping cough as a kid, wasn't any worse off without immunization. Immunization through sickness only caught after i had it a second time btw.

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god. when I hear all those calling it a ' Jab' I just want to cringe, its fucking shot, a needle, not a jab!

To be fair, the small pox vaccine was a jab. Actually, a circle of jabs. ;)

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Thank You, gemini!! second that all the way!

 

-from a fellow gemini, mother of three minimally-immunized children, a research biologist, former employee of a very well-known medical school, and a big Sears fan ;)

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Hmmm I also feel I should point out that the thimerosal-autism debate is, scientifically speaking, an entirely separate debate to the MMR-autism debate. I think this point is largely missed by many people

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