Thor Steinar shop opens in Berlin Mitte

191 posts in this topic

 

Hi Fribble - Just over Easter weekend I was standing writing an sms outside a rest stop bathroom in Saxony Anhalt when a bus full of soccer hools stopped and came in to reload on beer. I said nothing. Did not look up at them. Nothing. Suddenly I found myself being serenaded by gents in what are apparently the three most popular colors on the planet. When I looked up, three had their right hand extended and the love song was about how they were first going to take over Germany and then the world.

 

The woman behind the bakery counter subsequently refused to serve them and I grabbed my children and left. I supposed I should have called the police and pressed charges -- as could have anyone else present. But my concern was my children's safety. When I say I'm not sure how that sort of behavior should affect my life, I mean situations like this.

I don't want to sound like I am defending Naziism or hooliganism...but I have spent a little time with proper football hooligans (of the English varety)...and the singing thing...thats just something they do...it's kind of like being in the middle of a broadway musical...but all of the singers are drunk...but i promise...they really do just burst into song for no apparent reason (...and really...what are they supposed to sing...?" we suck...so now we'll go home..." ???) as for the colors...what team did they support...i know one or two of the teams have red in their colors

 

Belle

 

P.s. my hooligans were multicultural...so they were probably not too in favor of nazi/racist stuff either...

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You know what burns me about this post?

 

People get into a complete tizzy about Thor Steiner... and it could represent Nazism. *boo hiss* And yet in this town, people think it's completely cool to have people running aorund in Soviet uniforms and Che Guevara T shirts. I personally equate the Soviets right up there with the Nazis and it absolutely burns me that communism is considered cute and kitchy.

 

Those lovely communists took my friend's disabled mother in law, put her into a train car with a bunch of other elderly, disabled ethnic germans and pushed the filled car into the river in prague in 1946. Cause that's Cute. Let's not forget about the outright murder of Peter Fechter at the Berlin wall. Again... Kitchy. Holodomor Genocide... Just larks... And Che Guevara used to entertain himself by shooting Bolivians in the back of the head. Nice bloke...good with kids.

 

Oh... yes. Thor Steiner. *so* dangerous. Could that be a swastika? DEAR LORD! MY SOUL IS IN PERIL!

 

I can't walk through mitte without bumping into a hammer and sickle.

 

And No. I'm not a Nazi... but the complete and utter hypocrisies about how scary the nazis are on one hand, and this love affair that people have with the bolsheviks on the other really turns my stomach.

 

/rant :)

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I think a lot of people like to celebrate the design, music and popular culture of the DDR and this is very apparent in Berlin. It doesnt necessarily mean that we are approving of the brutality.

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they really do just burst into song for no apparent reason (...and really...what are they supposed to sing...?" we suck...so now we'll go home..." ???)

Sheffield Wednesday fans have been known to sing "We're sh*t and we know we are" and whilst being stuffed 0-5 by Man Utd, to chant "We want six"

 

What do you mean, this isnt relevant to the thread topic? Its... er... about how tribalism isnt always self-aggrandising, it can be self-deprecating.

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For a moment there Tib I thought you was a Wednesdayite, to which I would reply 'We're the one and only North End'!

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Your thinking was correct. :) But only in a mild, untribal sort of way. So I'll kick your head in later.

 

I went to a Hertha Berlin game, thinking i might troth my allegiance to them- well, they had a band, they had blue and white striped kit, they played rubbish football, they lost. It was all too scarily familiar.

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:D sounds all to familiar eh, without the traits of creeping up on unsuspecting bovines in Yorkshire of course, whispering 'ecky thump'

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Sunny wrote "I think a lot of people like to celebrate the design, music and popular culture of the DDR and this is very apparent in Berlin. It doesnt necessarily mean that we are approving of the brutality"

 

Do you know that I think the "Stuka" is a beautiful aircraft. As piece of 1930's aircraft design it is a classic. Oh lordy though - those damn Narzis used it - therefore (in many person's minds) anyone who can appreciate it must be some low-low right winger as well. I also think that the Spitfire has a fantastic line and the noise of the Merlin always sends a shiver down my spine. This not does mean that I think WC was a top lad...his actions during the general strike were barbaric (and I could not believe he was voted our Greatest Briton the other year. People forget - or maybe they just remember what they want to remember as well?)

 

Of course the two (appreciation v political leaning) are not necessarily exclusive to each other. We need to remember that.

 

What really gets my goat is that one autocratic totalitarian regime (and those who would like a similar regime today) is seen as being better than another autrocratic regime (and those who would like to reboot it). An appreciation is fine...emulation maybe not so fine. What makes one set of boot boys any better than another? The colour of their laces maybe?

 

Ban all defunct political imagery - or ban none. The Hammer and Sickle may have initially stood for the workers and peasants - but only a fool would say that everyone the party stood for or had dominion over, benefited. No one in their right mind would wear a shirt with a swastika on it - even if they do not approve of brutality (as sunny put it)- so why is it different with other regimes with a brutal human rights record? Did Soviet citizens not suffer as well under successive First Comrades? Or because it less well known than other terrible abuses does that mean it did not happen? Should we pretend they didn't?

 

This thread is sugesting that Thor Steinar clothes should be banned. What if I like a Thor Steinar top purely because I like the design...am i going to have to explain myself when walking down Oranien Strasse? Forget it! The last time I looked the Gestapo and Stasi went of business a while back.If you are going to have a dig at someone for what they wear rather than what they might do then why stop at Thor Steinar? I find "Primark" offensive. Yep it is cheap and cheerful but the clothes are often not designed to last for very long (poor value and ripping off those who can least afford it in the long run) and I have an unesay feeling that things marked "Made in [insert country with a history of sweat shops and child labour here] "are indeed made by little more than forced labour.Obviously, Joe Bloggs who has just bought some gear there thoroughly endorses the exploitation of workers for a pittance - otherwise he would shop elsewhere - and deserves the just and righteous punishment of the mob. A thoroughly stupid idea... whatever shop or logo.

 

All logos and symbols on casual clothes that can be construed as being offensive should be banned. Right, left, political, religious, whatever.

 

Freedom of expression is for suckers anyway. Old Erich H might have said that himself. He probably didn't though

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Your excellent post saved me some typing.

 

I have long had a pet peeve with the double-standard of modern-day casual use of communist-era iconography as acceptable whilst NS stuff is understandably verboten. Wearing a Che Guavara t-shirt is like wearing a Pol Pot, Stalin or Hitler t-shirt in my book, but I'm a bit of a stickler. It should all go in the trash bin of history, IMHO. But what happens if it's something ironic and hilarious such as those old punk-era "Hitler World Tour" rock concert t-shirt gag? Popular in Britain, banned in Germany. Well, it probably should be.

 

But to play devil's advocate for a minute, if one wears an old US or British army field jacket with all the patches taken off, or camoflage gear of any sort, does that suddenly make the wearer a "fascist" to those for whom wearing anything vaguely military (which often means functional) is unacceptable? My wife the hunter says that olive drab German military surplus is okay, but Flektarm worn by civilians in Germany is a sure sign of right-wing extremism. I'm sure the designers of Cold-War-era nylon bomber jackets had no idea that their biggest growth market would be skinheads 50 years down the line. So if my daughter decides to wear my old leather USAF flight jacket as a teen fashion statement, she runs the risk of being labeled something she isn't because others have coopted it?

 

Perfect example: Timberland started out making boots for New England hunters. It was picked up upon as part of rap music fashion, and sales exploded. Despite this, the founding family started making noises that they weren't too wild about being associated with misogny and inner-city drug culture ... and were pilloried for being "racist" for wanting to tighten their distribution. Did they do the right thing to protect the brand or not?

 

And to riff on your comment on casual wear where anything that can be offensive should be banned, I'm struck by how seemingly innocuous stuff (Fred Perry, Lonsdale) can be coopted for crazy reasons ("Lonsdale" can apparently be hung on a chair to spell out the "NSDA" part of "NSDAP." So we ban that. And then they move on to the Lacoste Crocodile, little polo guys and that canadian brand that looks like a pot leaf. So we ban all embroidery. Then someone says no more red colors, or no more blue, ad absurdium.

 

And then we're all stuck wearing Mao suits ... with the red star ripped off the cap, natch :)

 

Where does it end on the casual clothes front? If the neos start wearing L.L. Bean, I'll be wearing a barrel.

 

Edit: OMG, I just realized that if you spell "Orvis" backwards it's "Sivro" ... which may offend Italian-speaking Cypriot separatists or something, who'll come and confiscate my fly fishing gear :(

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I find most band shirts offensive as they remind me of the horrid garbage that i've been forced to listen to while outside of my own home. And blue jeans... a lot of terrible criminals in history have worn blue jeans.

 

BAN CLOTHES!

DOWN WITH PANTS!

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Some genius wit whose name escapes me once said or wrote "You can't please everybody all of the time". If you don't like what I wear and you are making assumptions - well that aint my problem. I don't have any TS stuff...it just aint me. But if I choose to then that is my choice. And I will have words with any who have the arrogance to tell me what I may and may not wear. I am not left nor am I right...I am on my own team because only I have the right to make my destiny. Be that in a FDJ shirt, Flecktarn, brushed tweed or a Thor Steinar shirt. I could not give a toss what some bonesheads get out wearing this that or t'other. To reiterate though I do think all political imagery should be banned on casual clothes - although I concede that there is the question where to draw the line...white laces perhaps?

 

Yep, you are right, ban clothes totally and that will REALLY level the playing field, in more ways than one. Who knows, we all might like it...o the freedom!

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And your copy of "Motorcycle Diaries" while you're at it, apparently.

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For all the bad things that happenend under stalinism, targetted mass industrialised genocide wasn't one of them.

And neither do the wearer of communist imagery, whether they are political or not, have targetted mass industrialised genocide as a goal not

they are a physical danger to minorities in society, Toytowners included.

 

That's the crucial difference.

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For all the bad things that happenend under stalinism, targetted mass industrialised genocide wasn't one of them.

Eh? And? So as long as it isn't included in the MonksTown list of 'acceptable' crimes against humanity its alright them?

 

I'm sure the victims of the Stazi will be glad to hear this.

 

I suppose that they were just unfortunate in that their lives didn't follow in parallel to 'the communist cause'.

 

Thanks for letting us know about the history of where we live. :)

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Yep, the Stasi was an unpleasant organisation as were deaths of those who wished to migrate on the DDRs heavily defended borders.

Germany and moth other states still run secret police and spies on people, a huge number of migrants still die trying to migrate over "Fortress Europe's" heavily defended borders.

 

It's shit what an exploitative system and its states do to humanity.

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Monks Town you are right about the lack of "Industrialised Genocide". It was a more bungled and ad-hoc affair than that. I am sure that the exiles who who uprooted and sent to the Taiga with no shelter or food and who died by the thousand thanked their lucky (red) stars.

 

I am also sure that the poor Poles who ended up at Katyn were delighted to have been selected for liquidation by the Soviets rather than the Nazis. (Incidentally it is often forgotten in the west that Poland was invaded in 1939 by Nazi Germany AND Soviet Russia. The Nazi militarisation of the Rhineland and the subsequent annexations are well also well known and were and still are frequent matters for historio-political debate. What about the Baltic states? What is the difference?)

 

Those "Hitler World Tour" t-shirts that you used to see in "Viz" are in pretty poor taste. Equally a "Stalin World Tour" would also be questionable...or I am missing something. Violence to achieve political ends is wrong whatever colour the shirt is. So why celebrate it.

 

I may of course be wrong...perhaps might is right, and if the day ever comes no doubt I will be re-educated as to my errors and misjudgement.

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