Terminating a work contract

65 posts in this topic

Umm, are you using your employer's log in now or pretending to be someone else or what?

 

 

Hi,

 

We would like to sack our nanny during her probation period but I wanted to check if there is anything I have to be careful of.

 

The question I have are:

She has been notified that her job will finish by the end of November.

 

Can she use sickness/holiday to take her time of employment beyond the probation period and thus qualify for a longer notice period?

 

Am I legally bound to pay sick pay in the probation/notice period? I stupidly didn't put anything in the contract about this so feel that I may have left myself a bit open here..

 

Many thanks

 

 

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Hey,

 

at the moment I have a permanent contract in an IT-company. First six months are "Probezeit". The contract says that even during Probezeit a term of notice is 14 days. In case I want to resign immediately, are there something "illegal" or will I get sanctions etc. if I don't stay that 14 days which is said in the contract?

 

"Die Firma hat das Recht, den Mitarbeiter nach Kündigung des Vertragsverhältnisses bei Weitergewährung der Bezüge zu beurlauben. Der Mitarbeiter bleibt auch dann bis zum Ablauf der Kündigungsfrist Angestellter des Hauses. Die Aufnahme einer anderweitigen selbst- oder nichtselbstständigen Tätigkeit vor Ablauf der Kündigungsfrist, kann nur mit Genehmigung des Arbeitgebers erfolgen. In einem solchen Fall werden Einkünfte, auf die innerhalb der Kündigungsfrist aus anderweitiger Tätigkeit Anspruch besteht, voll auf die Firma weiter zu zahlende Bezüge angerechnet."

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It's not like these questions have never been asked before, and it's not like a simple search doesn't turn up a f0ckton of threads on this topic.

 

* Leaving a job suddenly without giving notice

* Leaving a job before the end of the notice period

* Giving three months notice

* Notice for employment

* Is there any way to bypass 3 month notice

* Termination notice period

* Employment notice periods

* Leaving a work contract

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Hello, everyone. 
I have been accused by a fellow employee/mother who was doing her introduction weeks (4th week) that I grabbed her child’s arm (1 year 6 months) without the child’s permission and pushed her out of the door. 

After just one talk with the manager and mother/employee, they’re issuing me a warning letter saying that since I agreed I touched her daughter, I am guilty of inappropriate behaviour. 

I did not admit to abuse/inappropriate behaviour or any pushing. 
The acclaimed incident happened 29.07. No confrontation by the mother. On 02.08, I get called into the office to discuss the incident with her. I started crying but, never admitted to grabbing her arm. They pinned on me that I have touched without permission.  
On 03.08, my manager called me to say they’re issuing a warning letter home and I’m actually on vacation at this point. 
They issue the letter via mail despite me being on vacation from 03.08-15.08. 

What should I do ?

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1 hour ago, Lolapop said:

Hello, everyone. 
I have been accused by a fellow employee/mother who was doing her introduction weeks (4th week) that I grabbed her child’s arm (1 year 6 months) without the child’s permission and pushed her out of the door. 

After just one talk with the manager and mother/employee, they’re issuing me a warning letter saying that since I agreed I touched her daughter, I am guilty of inappropriate behaviour. 

I did not admit to abuse/inappropriate behaviour or any pushing. 
The acclaimed incident happened 29.07. No confrontation by the mother. On 02.08, I get called into the office to discuss the incident with her. I started crying but, never admitted to grabbing her arm. They pinned on me that I have touched without permission.  
On 03.08, my manager called me to say they’re issuing a warning letter home and I’m actually on vacation at this point. 
They issue the letter via mail despite me being on vacation from 03.08-15.08. 

What should I do ?

 

You sound like you need urgent legal advice, rather than opinions from strangers on the internet. Hopefully this can be sorted out.

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I actually did seek the advice of my lawyer. I believe it’s an Ermahnung so, it’s apparently, not as serious but, it’s a false allegation! 
My lawyer advised me if after making your case and they refuse to remove it, you can ask for immediate termination if the work contract and go to court to dismiss this warning from my personal file. 

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This sounds like useful counsel; definitely a case for a lawyer. Good luck to you.

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To be honest, I can’t find any information about immediate termination due to unfair treatment or false allegations. Should I wait the 1-week, then, terminate the work contract immediately? 
 

My lawyer advised me that I should give them 1 week to remove the Ermahnung. He also said that if they refuse immediately, I could resign with immediate effect but, I don’t see enough information on the internet to pursue immediate resignation. 
I do not want to be sued for unlawful termination. I’m also wondering how to pace it after I have made my stand. 
 

I am going to see the doctor right after the meeting so, they definitely cannot force next to work, either. 
I feel so sick, stomach problems, stress and nauseous. 


 

I also don’t have legal insurance. So, I’m trying to ensure it’ll be in my favour no matter what. 

 

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Do you want to leave your employer? Are you confident that you will find another job quickly? Being falsely accused isn't good but without legal insurance you're probably not going to be in a position to fight it with having a lot of expense.

 

You need to think about what you want out of the situation. You can tell your boss you have consulted a lawyer and you are giving them 1 week to remove the warning but what happens if they don't?

 

Alternatively you can leave the situation as it is even though you have been falsely accused and then look for another job and leave your employer when you have another job.

 

Neither option is ideal but sometimes it's a case you just need to accept things no matter how unfair they are and move on with your life.

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Thank you for the reply. I feel that you’re the only one who’s put my thoughts in perspective. 
 

I have another job offer. I am supposed to start on 23.08 but, I haven’t signed it as I need to serve 4-weeks notice period which I will give on 16.08. 
 

I feel 85% sure that they’d side with the other colleague. 
Can I request for a Zeugnis or it doesn’t matter ? 
 

I am going to see the doctor as there is no way I will enter the school again to work with her, her child and her husband. He’s also an employee. It makes me so sick. I’m very sick in my stomach and nauseous just thinking of the accusation. 

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If you have it in writing from your lawyer that you can terminate your contract with immediate effect I´d rely on that. If this advice is wrong he (or his insurance rather) would have to compensate you for any resulting damage. To be on the safe side I´d ask him to write the termination letter on your behalf.

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I’ve emailed my lawyer about the steps I should take after the dreaded talk. I would still be resigning regardless. So, I’m planning to just give the 4 weeks notice. Does anyone know if it’s from 16.08, when is the last date of employment?
Is it 13 or 15th September ? 

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If you resign, you'll forfeit the first 3 months of your unemployment benefits (assuming you have an entitlement). Hopefully your lawyer will advise you of this.

 

Your last day of employment will depend the wording in your contract. They often stipulate that you have to quit as of the 15th or end of the month. If it just says "4 weeks notice", then it's 4 weeks - so September 13 if you give notice on August 16.

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6 minutes ago, Lolapop said:

I’ve emailed my lawyer about the steps I should take after the dreaded talk. I would still be resigning regardless. So, I’m planning to just give the 4 weeks notice. Does anyone know if it’s from 16.08, when is the last date of employment?
Is it 13 or 15th September ? 

Please ask your lawyer - without knowing exactly what the wording is in your employment contract, it's impossible to say. Most will specify to the middle/end of the month. 

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1 hour ago, El Jeffo said:

If you resign, you'll forfeit the first 3 months of your unemployment benefits (assuming you have an entitlement). Hopefully your lawyer will advise you of this.

 

Your last day of employment will depend the wording in your contract. They often stipulate that you have to quit as of the 15th or end of the month. If it just says "4 weeks notice", then it's 4 weeks - so September 13 if you give notice on August 16.

I actually want to start my new job on the 23.08. I can’t. Hence, I will let the normal notice period take effect and I’ll start my new job immediately after my notice period ends. My new employer is willing to wait. 

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Okay, you didn't mention that. Obviously unemployment benefits aren't relevant in that case.

 

There's a chance that your employer might agree to an Aufhebungsvertrag, which would release you from your duties immediately. You could suggest that when you resign.

 

Please let us know how it works out (and what your lawyer says).

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8 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

Okay, you didn't mention that. Obviously unemployment benefits aren't relevant in that case.

 

There's a chance that your employer might agree to an Aufhebungsvertrag, which would release you from your duties immediately. You could suggest that when you resign.

 

Please let us know how it works out (and what your lawyer says).

I’ll update this thread on 16.08. I emailed my lawyer but, no news from him yet. I’ll call him perhaps, on Friday if he doesn’t reply me. But, I’ve decided for sure, I’ll tender resignation with notice period of 4 weeks. 
 

My resignation is a separate issue. 
My only concern is to remove the Ermahnung. 
i am just afraid that they’ll not give me a good Zeugnis if I leave with no notice period. I also read that if I leave with immediate notice, my employer can sue me if I don’t give 4-weeks notice. 
That was why I wanted to know if someone else has experience of ending their contract earlier. 
 

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On 09/08/2021, 14:07:33, Lolapop said:

...that I grabbed her child’s arm (1 year 6 months) without the child’s permission...

 

Just how do you get permission to touch a toddler - from a toddler? What planet are these people on? IME small children do not respond well to oral instructions. They do respond better to firm (but kind) physical gestures. Do you really want to stay there? Is there any point fighting this battle? I am sorry I have no concrete advice except to stay calm and get some perspective on the situation.

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Have you actually talked to them about what they´d agree to? Maybe you can negotiate a satisfactory solution with them? Like e.g. they´ll give you a good Zeugnis if you work until date x or something like that?

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In my experience, kindergartens and schools often have crappy management. It's educators that have never been taught how to lead a team or what the legal framework is (there are exceptions,  this is just from listening to a bunch of people working in the field in my family and among friends). What I'm trying to say is: just because they did something doesn't necessarily mean the can get away with it or is even legal.  So: 

Definitely follow your lawyers advice,  have him write the letter and/or accompany you to any discussion with them. Ideally,  he gets the Ermahnung removed. You are anyway entitled to a wohlwollendes , i.e. positive reference.  Not sure how that works with a black mark on your file though.  It's good that your have a plan B. Good luck at the new job!

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