Moving out of an apartment without renovating

161 posts in this topic

 

OMG so I keep telling my German boyfriend that he really needs to tell me about things in Germany that are going to be completely different to how life is in Australia, you know, so I don't make stupid mistakes and I can start easing into the culture shock. You know, stuff like taking the kitchen with you, television fees etc...but he never mentioned this! I can't believe you guys have to paint/renovate apartments when you move out! I can't believe that you're ALLOWED to. If I ever tried to paint anything in any of the apartments I've rented in Sydney, or install something, I'd never be able to get my deposit back. Which I think I appreciate now so that they can't make me fix up places when I leave!

 

Yeah isn't it wonderful being a German landlord, you get to pass (almost) all the running costs of the building on to the tenants than when they move come in and demand they leave in pristine condition, makes you wonder why Germans are a nation of renters!

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@ itsnikee

You do not need to take the Kitchen which the last people paid for! I had this problem as well but my German wife said to them! NO thank you I do not like the Kitchen it is not what I want! and they had to take it with them you do not have to accept the kitchen from someone else .and you must make sure that you get in your papers that you moved in without decorating and have decorated yourself! also photograph any damage (very important)also dont forget if you buy the Kitchen and move you will have to sell it or REMOVE it when you leave as it is not part of the inventory

This link has been translated but have a look

http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.meineimmobilie.de/vermieten-verwalten/mietverhaeltnis-beenden/abstandszahlung-wenn-der-mieter-um-seine-kueche-feilscht&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmuss%2Bich%2Bdie%2Bk%25C3%25BCche%2B%25C3%25BCbernehmen%2Bvom%2Bvorg%25C3%25A4nger%26client%3Dubuntu-

 

and here is another regarding renovation! its badly translated but you will understand the main stuff

 

http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.focus.de/immobilien/mieten/tid-14944/schoenheitsreparaturen-wann-mieter-beim-auszug-renovieren-muessen_aid_418607.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwann%2Bmuss%2Bich%2Brenovieren%2Bbei%2Bwohnungs%2Bwechsel%26client%3Dubuntu-browser%26es_sm%3D93

 

Stu

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@ itsnikee

You do not need to take the Kitchen which the last people paid for!

 

Of course, you don´t have to. But the landlord doesn´t have to pick you as the new tenant either. If he wants to do a favour to the current tenant he can choose a new tenant who does want the kitchen.

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First sign for the house! and then tell them to stuff the Kitchen! If it is not in the mietvertrag and it should not be in it because the Kitchen will belong to the Vormieter OK the Landlord could buy it from them themself and then put it in the vertrag

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@ fraufruit

I would not want a Kitchen that I do not like!!! Most people have there own definition of how they want there kitchen Ok some are happy with a Hotplate and a Microwave but most people look forward to fitting there own kitchen

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First sign for the house! and then tell them to stuff the Kitchen!

 

I´d either buy the kitchen or look for another place. If you do what stuart suggests you will have a strained relationship with your landlord from day 1, given that you wrote earlier that he allowed the current tenants to look for someone who wants their kitchen. If it´s your turn to move out you might be glad to have such a landlord who allows you to pick a next tenant and who doesn´t insist on the notice period, but you could probably not expect as much goodwill if you start your relationship with him like that.

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If that is how the Landlord is at the start then do not even bother moving in .its trouble waiting to happen This is the problem in Germany the bullying tactics of (Not just Landlords) and people not standing up for themselves.

I am finished on this topic and I think what advise I have given was helpful! also don't forget the electrical stuff that's in the Kitchen is old so will need renewing in a couple of years if not sooner and Hey!!! Maybe they bought that kitchen with them from the last house they had :unsure:

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This reminds of something I read on the interwebs..Everyone in Germany rips everyone off. So everyone is equally dissatisfied and doesn't do a thing about it.

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When I had realised that its not easy to get an apartment in Munich, I was ready to sign any constraints which would not appear sensible to anybody.

Either I gave ~ 1000 euros to a makler or agree to some crappy conditions. Either way I would lose money.

So it all depends on the conditions you are in.

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I've looked at different websites and read through this thread trying to get an answer on whether I need to do any renovation, but I can't find my answer.

From what I understand I am not required to do any renovating as I will have lived in my place for only a little over a year. This is what my contract states:

 

Schönheitsreparaturen umfassen nur das Tapezieren, Anstreichen oder Kalken der Wände und Decken, das Streichen der Fußböden, Heizkörper einschließlich Heizrohre, der Innentüren sowie der Fenster und Außentüren von innen.

 

Since this is all it states, I assume then I would just go with the legal German laws, which, if I remember, means I wouldn't need to renovate since I've only lived in the apartment for a little over a year.

However, before I moved in the real estate agent offered to give me some money for renovation, which I declined. I didn't mind the yellow walls and a few scratches in the wallpaper.

My question is since I declined this money, would I need to do any renovating?

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I kept looking and studying my apt. contract and I also saw that it says, "Bei Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses sind die überlassenen Räume in ordnungsgemäßem Zustand zu übergeben."

 

Then it also says "Hat der Mieter die Schönheitsreparaturen übernommen, so sind die nach Nr. 4.3 AVB ..."

 

I didn't agree to doing any renovations and I haven't changed anything in the apt., so I am thinking I am okay on not renovating. However, I will go ahead and check with the real estate agent, since, from my research it seems that the only sure way to know is to ask the real estate agent.

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3 hours ago, JN53 said:

II didn't agree to doing any renovations and I haven't changed anything in the apt., so I am thinking I am okay on not renovating. However, I will go ahead and check with the real estate agent, since, from my research it seems that the only sure way to know is to ask the real estate agent.

Unless it is stated in your lease that you are responsible for Schönheitsreparaturen you aren´t. Should the estate agent tell you something different I´d suggest to join the local Mieterverein and ask them.

 

P.S.: How to alert TT´s grammar/spelling police? TT´s spellcheck is wrong: it should read Mie-terverein, not Mi-eterverein!

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Thanks a lot for the answer. I appreciate it and it does not say I am responsible for Schönheitsreparaturen. It just says that they include and then lists them. That would be the German I wrote in my first post. I'll check with the real estate agent, though.

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Normally ... either you get a fully renovated apartment and you have to renovate it when you move out OR you get a non-renovated apartment and you renovate it yourself, when you move in but do not have to do any renovations when you move out. This is normally the standard in rental contracts. If you turned down money for renovations, did you put this on record?

 

"Schoenheitsreparaturen" are usually mentioned in the context who does who during the rental period. Essential repair has to be borne by the landloard (e.g. if heating breaks, if there is a storm and there are leaks in the roof, etc." and then it usually states "Schoenheitsreparaturen muessen vom Mieter getragen werden" and then defines "Schoenheitsreparaturen" like in your case. It means basically, you can't request your landlord to get your walls painted because it is your responsibility.

 

So check your contract carefully, ideally have it checked by someone who is proficient in German legal language. My feeling is that you do have to renovate the apartment, as you did not do it when you moved in - but I could be wrong. Normally, it does not matter how long you lived in it.

 

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Thanks for the answer Thai. I didn't document being offered or turning down money, as this was done over the telephone. I think first I will check with the real estate agent and see what she says. I hope to document this by e-mail. Then, depending on the answer, I will see if I can check with someone proficient in German legalese. I did spend a couple of hours on the Internet reading (in German) through posts and laws, so now to the next step.

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here is the Act 43 

4.3 Schönheitsreparaturen sind fachgerecht auszuführen. Die Schönheitsreparaturen umfassen das Tapezieren/Streichen der Wände und Decken, das Streichen der Fußböden, den Innenanstrich der Fenster, das Streichen der Türen und der Außentüren von innen sowie der Heizkörper, der Rohre und der Einbaumöbel (mit Kunststoff beschichtete Oberflächen dürfen keinen Anstrich erhalten). Die Schönheitsreparaturen sind spätestens nach Ablauf folgender Zeiträume auszuführen:

in Küchen, Bädern und Duschen -alle drei Jahre
in Wohn- und Schlafräumen, Fluren
Dielen und Toiletten -alle fünf Jahre
in anderen Nebenräumen -alle sieben Jahre

Der Mieter ist für den Umfang der im Laufe der Mietzeit ausgeführten Schönheitsreparaturen beweispflichtig. Lässt in besonderen Ausnahmefällen der Zustand der Wohnung eine Verlängerung der vereinbarten Regelfristen zu oder erfordert der Grad der Abnutzung eine Verkürzung, so ist der Vermieter auf Antrag des Mieters verpflichtet, im anderen Fall berechtigt, nach billigem Ermessen die Fristen des Planes bezüglich der Durchführung einzelner Schönheitsreparaturen zu verlängern oder zu verkürzen.

12. Rückgabe der Mietsache

Bei Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses sind die überlassenen Räume im ordnungsgemäßen Zustand zu übergeben.

Hat der Mieter die Schönheitsreparaturen übernommen, so sind die nach Nr. 4.3 AVB fälligen Schönheitsreparaturen rechtzeitig vor Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses auszuführen.

Sind bei Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses Schönheitsreparaturen noch nicht fällig im Sinne von Nr. 4.3 AVB, so hat der Mieter an den Vermieter einen Kostenanteil zu zahlen, da die Übernahme der Schönheitsreparaturen durch den Mieter bei der Berechnung der Miete berücksichtigt worden ist. Zur Berechnung des Kostenanteils werden die Kosten einer im Sinne der Nr. 4.3 AVB umfassenden und fachgerechten Schönheitsreparatur zum Zeitpunkt der Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses ermittelt. Der zu zahlende Anteil entspricht in der Regel dem Verhältnis zwischen den vollen Fristen lt. Nr. 4.3 AVB un den seit Ausführung der letzten Schönheitsreparaturen bis zur Räumung abgelaufenen Zeiträumen. Soweit der Mieter noch nicht fällige Schönheitsreparaturen rechtzeitig vor Beendigung des Mietverhältnisses durchführt, ist er von der Zahlung des Kostenanteils befreit.

 

and Here googled into English  (of sorts )   

 

4.3 Cosmetic repairs are carried out professionally. The cosmetic repairs include wallpapering / painting the walls and ceiling, painting the floors, the interior painting of the windows, painting the doors and exterior doors from the inside as well as the radiator, the pipes and the built-in furniture (plastic-coated surfaces must not paint condition) , The cosmetic repairs are completed not later than after the expiry of the following periods:

in kitchens, bathrooms and showers -all three years
in living rooms and bedrooms, hallways
Boards and toilets -all five years
in other ancillary rooms -all seven years

The Tenant is responsible for the scope of cosmetic repairs performed during the rental period. Lets in exceptional cases the condition of the apartment for an extension of the agreed rule deadlines or requires the degree of wear shortening, so is the owner at the request of the tenant obliged entitled in the other case, at its discretion, the terms of the plan with respect to the implementation of certain cosmetic repairs to lengthen or shorten.

12 return of the rented

Upon termination of the lease, the licensed premises must be handed over in proper condition.

If the tenant has taken the cosmetic repairs, so the fees payable under no. 4.3 GCI cosmetic repairs are timely execute before termination of the lease.

upon termination of the lease are cosmetic repairs not yet due within the meaning of no. 4.3 GCI, the tenant has to pay to the landlord a cost share, since the takeover of cosmetic repairs has been taken into account by the tenant in the calculation of the rent. To calculate the cost share the cost within the meaning of no. 4.3 GCI comprehensive and professional beauty repair at the time of termination of the lease will be determined. The payable share generally corresponds to the ratio between the full periods lt. No. 4.3 GCI un the implementation since the latest cosmetic repairs last until clearance periods. Unless the tenant does not yet due Cosmetic repairs carried out in good time before termination of the lease, it is exempt from paying the cost share.

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13 minutes ago, stuartmartin said:

If the tenant has taken the cosmetic repairs

I´d rather translate ".. Hat der Mieter die Schönheitsreparaturen übernommen ..." like "...If the tenant is responsible for cosmetic repairs..."  - and that´s a big "IF". Apart from that: is this from the lease contract we´re talking about?

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I think the best thing to do is to join the Mieterverein, especially as many of them offer services in English, before giving notice and then go and talk to them. We're planning on moving out at the end of the year and this is exactly what I plan on doing. Also need to make sure I cancel as it auto renews

 

He's our situation and what I'm expecting. Moved into a brand new building with hard wood floors 3.5 years ago. When we leave I need to 

 

  • fill all holes in the ceiling and walls (from pictures and curtains)
  • properly paint the place (white) as it was brand new when we moved in
  • leave behind the mirrors in the bathrooms 
  • scratches in the hardwood floor are considered normal wear and tear
  • any damage not considered wear and tear needs to be repaired but can be claimed under our liability insurance  

I'll update once I've spoken with the mieterverein. 

 

**rant**

 

I never understood for the life of me why Germans put in beautiful hardwood floors and don't protect then with a shellac or a lacquer. In only takes a few months of wear and tear to totally ruin a gorgeous hardwood floor. Same with flat white paint, utterly stupid!!!! Our walls have so many marks from normal wear and tear I'm almost embarrassed to have people over, but then dirty walls seems to be a German thing. We're moving back into our own place and will have it painted and the wife is insisting an waschbare paint. I'm sure the painter will think we're totally nuts, why would you want to protect your walls. Dirty walls are a German thing.

 

**end rant**

 

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