Moving out of an apartment without renovating

161 posts in this topic

 

but the thing is, she must be able to SEE that you didn't paint the ceiling, meaning it is not in good shape, otherwise how could she pick that out as something that needs to be done?Also, as far as I know your landlord is not supposed to have a key to the apartment - can someone confirm or correct that?Even if she does, it's rich to think she needs to hop to and get you that copy because you locked yourself out. It would be extraordinarily nice of her if she did do it, but she's not a jerk for not doing it. I find it pretty amazing you think she "is not the best landlord" because she didn't drop everything to bail your ass out of a situation of your own making, and that maybe that is justification for skipping out on your rent and/or renovation agreement.

 

I think you're missing the point. I was locked out and called her to explain and asked if I could pick up the spare and return it the next day (since she lived 1 hour by train away). She said okay but she was driving and she would call me back to arrange a time. And then did not and ignored all my calls. I never once expected or even said that she should "hop to" and deliver me the spare keys.

 

I feel as a landlord, you have a certain responsibility to your tenant. If you know they are locked out in winter when it's -2C during the day and you said you would call them back to arrange a pickup, the least you can do is answer your phone or send an SMS if you don't want to call.

 

It's been 4 years since it was last painted so naturally the white has dulled a bit over time. When looking at it next to the freshly painted white walls, you can see a small difference in shade. The new law says that you only need to paint if you lived there longer than 5 years, is unliveable (i.e. trashed), or if you used strong colours.

 

I had one wall sand colour, which is arguably not strong but I painted it anyway after only 4 years living there. A shade difference between ceiling and wall is not unliveable. So legally speaking, I am the one in the right and she cannot demand me to do the ceiling, doors, etc. I left 8L of good quality paint in the apartment so she can hire a professional painter to do whatever else she wants and ILLEGALLY take it off my deposit.

 

I don't have the time to argue it with her.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't have the time to argue it with her.

 

If you don't invest time prepare to invest money. You want your deposit from her, you convince her that you are entitled to it. Leaving the paint there for the purpose of painting can be interpreted as the admission of responsibility.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, it's absolutely rude that she didn't contact you as she said she would.

 

But sorry, she has no responsibility to assist you with a problem like that. She does have responsibility to make sure your living conditions are legal. That's it.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I would recommend not making this a game of tit for tat. You can only lose against your landlord.

Fulfill your obligations, or even a fraction more (paint the ceiling or whatever, it won't kill you), get as much deposit back as possible, and move on.

So she wasn't nice. Deal.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The LL can keep a spare key with the tenant's consent but can only enter the apartment with consent as well.

 

There is often a clause in the rental contract allowing the landlord to keep a spare key, but even then there is no-way they can enter the apartment without explicit consent (or in an emergency) and there is nothing to stop the tenant changing the lock if he/she wishes (so long as they change it back when they leave).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

There is often a clause in the rental contract allowing the landlord to keep a spare key,

To which the tenant gives consent by signing the contract.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I left the apartment in a better condition than I received it (considering I painted when I moved in and moved out) but I've already committed to losing a few hundred of my deposit.

 

I would have to get a lawyer to write a letter explaining the new law doesn't require me to renovate just because she wants me to but right now I have much more pressing matters to deal with than to argue at length over a few hundred Euro.

 

Thanks for the advice though.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the Meiterverein also has a service for about 80 Euros, where a "specialist" comes to the house at sign out, to verify what would be considered "reasonable wear and tear" versus what would need to be touched up or redone by tenant or paid for out of their deposit?

 

It seems like money well spent to make sure you are not being hosed by renovation costs by the landlord.

 

We just touched up the walls where they had gotten scuffed and did a REALLY good cleaning

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

come on man, you already made it clear you were essentially PAID to paint when you moved in, by agreement with the former TENANT.

 

So how that factors into the current situation is beyond my feeble mind.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hello,

 

Most renovation topics here on Toytown seem to just talk about the liability to paint the walls, but my question is a bit different.

 

In a nutshell, I am moving out of my apartment after five years. The apartment was freshly renovated when I moved in. The law in Germany says that after five years the bathroom and kitchen must be renovated and after eight years everything else.

 

There is some small damage to the floor which the landlord has costed at about 800 Euro (I'm not complaining about that).

 

My question is quite simply, if I give notice and then leave, clear all my stuff out and repaint the walls, am I liable for any of the renovation costs? Can I expect reasonably to reclaim my Kaution minus the 800 Euro?

 

Many thanks in advance,

Dave

 

PS - Stupidly, I took the Mietvertrag to England a couple of weeks ago and forgot to bring it back, but is there just a standard "law" that covers people moving out after a certain period of time?

 

*EDIT* Just found my rental contract and checking it now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This says that I am liable to 1/5 the cost of the kitchen and bathroom right? Any advice or experience much appreciated.

post-19893-13934275561242_thumb.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

er, according to that text, that would be 1/5 p.a.

 

If no renovation due date has passed by the ending of the lease the tenant is liable to pay a share of the renovation costs. For rooms required to be renovated at 5 year intervals 1/5th of the renovation costs for each full year since the time of the last renovation. And in the case of rooms required to be renovated at 8 or 10 year intervals 1/8th resp. 1/10th for each full year since their last renovation.

 

As a cost basis for the above shares the landlord should provide a professional decorator's cost estimate. The tenant has the right to provide lower estimate/s from alternative company/ies.

 

If no renovations were carried out since the lease began the date of occupation is taken to be the last prior renovation date. Should, at the end of the contract, there be no agreement as to the date of last prior renovation the onus is on the tenant to prove when they, or their contractor had carried it out.

 

The tenant is entitled to release themself from the renovation charge entirely by carrying out, or arranging to have carried out, the renovations to a fault-free professional standard.

 

So if you've been there 5 full years you may redecorate the kitchen and bathroom (and 5/8ths or 5/10ths of 'everything else') or expect to be charged accordingly.

 

HTH

 

2B

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly there was a court ruling last year which voided all clauses which stipulated that renovations had to be done at specified times without regard to whether or not they are necessary. I´d ask the Mieterverein whether this ruling applies in your case.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha ha now LISTEN TO THIS YOU LOT:If when you move in an abode has been painted then it has to be painted when you move out.WHAT HAS BEEN MADE ILLEGAL AND VOID IS EXACTLY WHAT IT STATES IN THAT THING FROM CAT.Its the statements saying every so often say 5 years that it has to be painted i.e living room.If you have a rent contract with that in it its null and void

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Mik, now my ears are ringing. There's no need to shout.

 

However, I would not state ex cathedra that the_cat has an invalid clause in his lease as the obligation to pay a percentage may actually be effectively agreed on. This is really a case for a specialist lawyer, not a group of laypeople.

 

 

http://www.mieterverein-hamburg.de/tl_files/dokumente/merkblaetter/merkblatt-42-schoenheitsreparaturen.pdf

 

Quotenabgeltungsklausel: Manche Verträge enthalten

Klauseln, wonach der Mieter bei Mietende dem Vermieter für

noch nicht fällige Schönheitsreparaturen eine zeitanteilige

Entschädigung zu leisten haben. Der BGH hält solche

Klauseln grundsätzlich für zulässig, aber nicht dann, wenn sie

auf eine starre Fristenregelung Bezug nehmen. Auch wenn die

Quotenregelung selbst „starr“ ist, kann sie unwirksam sein.

Knüpft sie allerdings an eine "weiche" Fristenregelung für die

laufenden Schönheitsreparaturen an, so wird deren

Wirksamkeit nicht berührt. Die Wirksamkeit einer Quotenklausel

setzt zudem immer voraus, dass der Mieter das Recht

hat, die Arbeiten in kostensparender, wenn auch

handwerksgerechter, Eigenarbeit zu erledigen.

If there is a clause stating specific periods after which renovation work has to be done the follow up is invalid, according to the above information. It seems that such a clause is included in his contract but we can't be sure until he confirms this.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

er, according to that text, that would be 1/5 p.a.

 

If no renovation due date has passed by the ending of the lease the tenant is liable to pay a share of the renovation costs. For rooms required to be renovated at 5 year intervals 1/5th of the renovation costs for each full year since the time of the last renovation. And in the case of rooms required to be renovated at 8 or 10 year intervals 1/8th resp. 1/10th for each full year since their last renovation.

 

2B

 

Thanks for all your replies and to 2B for the clarification (I read it quite wrong).

 

 

 

If there is a clause stating specific periods after which renovation work has to be done the follow up is invalid, according to the above information. It seems that such a clause is included in his contract but we can't be sure until he confirms this.

 

The situation is that I want to pass the apartment on with furniture to a Nachmieter, because it's just less hassle and I need to move quickly. My landlord was ok about this, but the problem was with the laws for renovation. So, I did in fact agree to pay 5/8 (my share for the five years I have been in the apartment) of the next renovation, and the nachmieter would then agree to pay 3/8 or 1/8 per calendar year.

 

I toyed with the idea of just leaving normally and passing into my 5th year (on 15th March and leaving on 31st) and then not having to pay (selling off furniture, painting the walls etc., and then letting him renovate before the Nachmieter moved in), however it seems the contract would demand that payment anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.

 

Many thanks to all again, and individually to Mik for shouting so loud!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG so I keep telling my German boyfriend that he really needs to tell me about things in Germany that are going to be completely different to how life is in Australia, you know, so I don't make stupid mistakes and I can start easing into the culture shock. You know, stuff like taking the kitchen with you, television fees etc...but he never mentioned this! I can't believe you guys have to paint/renovate apartments when you move out! I can't believe that you're ALLOWED to. If I ever tried to paint anything in any of the apartments I've rented in Sydney, or install something, I'd never be able to get my deposit back. Which I think I appreciate now so that they can't make me fix up places when I leave!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I can't believe you guys have to paint/renovate apartments when you move out!

 

It´s not always like that. There is definitely room for negotiation. And of course you can always opt to have it done by a company and pay for it. If the landlord has to do it he will bake the cost into your rent. So either way, you´ll have to pay for it whether you pay directly or via a slightly higher rent. But if you do it yourself (and you have a legal right to do it yourself as long as you do it properly - you cannot be forced to have it done by a company) it will obviously be cheaper.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

OMG so I keep telling my German boyfriend that he really needs to tell me about things in Germany that are going to be completely different to how life is in Australia, you know, so I don't make stupid mistakes and I can start easing into the culture shock.

 

If I could have my time again, I would do two things:

 

1. Join the Mietverein immediately.

2. Research and understand in meticulous detail how the mandatory medical insurance system works.

 

At least you are moving with a native German. He can hopefully put you right as and when situations arrive that you could potentially blunder into.

 

This post is slightly off topic, I know, but best of luck.

Dave

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I can't believe you guys have to paint/renovate apartments when you move out...

 

Whoa there...

 

This is no longer strictly the case. You are required to keep the accommodation in a reasonable state, but fair wear and tear commensurate with your time living there is allowed. If you stay longer than 3-5 years then general renovation (i.e. decoration) is expected, depending on the room (bathrooms and kitchens need decorating more often), but when you move out there is no need to decorate as long as you have complied with this. Any damage, such as holes in the wall, must be repaired.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now