Moving out of an apartment without renovating

161 posts in this topic

Hello,

Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience or can offer some advice on the issue of repainting.

 

My Landlord wishes to renovate (extensively so it appears) the apartment I’ve lived in for 3 years. He told me there was no need for me to repaint the place or do anything other than clean it which is great. He does however want me to pay a percentage of the re-painting fee.

The contract states that I am obligated to pay 40% of the Schönheitsreparaturen after 3 years tenancy. He proposed that I get a quote for the full repainting job (for freshening up the white walls) and he’ll get an independent quote of his own, then we’re to agree on a price somewhere in the middle of which we'd pay him 30% of that total.

 

Something about this does not sound right to me. I have read the section on Schönheitsreparaturen and it appears he does not have the right to charge me for this. http://www.mieterverein-muenchen.de/mietrecht/lexikon/s/schoenheitsreparaturen.html

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I've had so many bad landlords that I never expect to get the deposit back. It seems to be less hassle to view it as a kind of tax.

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The contract states that I am obligated to pay 40% of the Schönheitsreparaturen after 3 years tenancy.

It does seem that this part of your contract can be ignored. Apparently that clause is eine starre Abgeltungsklausel and in decision BGH VIII ZR 52/06 the BGH says those are legally void.

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/umzug/mieterbund/mieterrechte/schoenheitsreparaturklausel.html

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IMHO your landlord is letting you off easy. my last landlord from hell had a massive wishlist before I left the house.costed me north of 600e..

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FYI, in Munich, if you are a professional landlord and you don't make a substantial profit

 

Most landlords I know lose money on rentals, it seems to be the nature of the beast that you buy a property and subsidise whom ever lives there. A professional landlord might get between 3-5 percent return on investment unless they catch the beginning of a massive run up in prices.

 

I am very lucky that I have excellent tenants, but the rent they pay is only about 2/3 of what I actually need to pay the mortgage in a reasonable time, I'll need to put approx an extra 30% to get e mortgage done in a reasonable time. But then I bought it as a place to live not as an investment.

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3-5% is pretty decent in times like the present where you are lucky to get anything close to 2% on a savings account.

 

Business-wise, having the rent cover the mortgage is less important, but covering the interest charges is. Some people are still locked into mortgages charging 5% or more, whereas careful investors should be able to get mortgages (or re-mortgage) under 3%, which means you can pay off loans quicker and be left with a solid lump of investment, which in many areas in Germany is also appreciating faster than in previous times. The result should be a pretty solid pension. In a commercial let interest is of course tax deductible which can be an advantage for higher tax-rate investors.

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Hello Everybody,

 

I am facing issues with my rental deposit amount(1200 Euros) as we recently moved out of my apartment.

 

The owner has sent his agency person on the last day and she checked the aprtment very clearly and signed the protocol that the prtment is fine and also took my sign on the protocol before handing over the keys and I made sure to take the pictures also.

 

Now after many attempts to reach out my owner and he finally inform us that he will not pay any amount of our deposit amount and he says that he has to renovate the whole house and it will cost him around 5000 euros which was never mentioned in my contract and I never got fully renovated or fully painted house while I moved in 3 years before.

 

I knew that something of this sort going to happen here and I took the HUK Coburg legal insurance and now the HUK team says that I will not get any assistance for the lawyer as I need to have a separate insurance for the rental stuff.

 

Now I have sent a formal letter to my owner giving him 10 days notice to pay back my deposit amount and I want to know what should I do next when I will not get any response from my owner and whether I should go for Lawyer and I don't know how much it cost for me to hire a lawyer as it should not happen as I lose all deposit amount and also I havd to pay huge amount to lawyer also.

 

Can you please help me to get out of this situation as I am need of this money badly.

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Since you have a signed handover report you have a strong case. The only problem you might face is whether the agency representative was authorized to perform this action in the landlord's name, but the landlord would have to prove that this is not the case.

 

I advise getting a lawyer to apply for a court order, the fees are not prohibitively high and have to be covered by your landlord as damages should he decide to pay up after all. That way, your landlord will see that you mean business. I could even take care of this for you, you do not need a lawyer to apply for the court order.

 

If he objects you have to decide if you want to follow up and substantiate your claim, cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Please have all legal advice you receive here verified by a legal professional.

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It's also questionable if you have to perform (or pay for) any renovation at all, assuming you didn't explicitly wreck the place or have been there 20 years and not done a single iota of maintenance. The landlord has to absorb the costs of fair wear and tear...

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When you moved in and it had not been freshly painted or renovarted then it should be written in your rent contract `Besenrein`, meaning a sweep through.Also lawyer insurance for rental propreties is never included in a normal insurance you have to get extra cover.Go the cheap way and you will always end up with these problems. ;)

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Thanks a lot Sarabyrd and YorkshireLad6,

 

Actually I have the mails written from the Owner where he informed me to update the home details to the agency lady and she has clearly written in the protocol that all rooms are fine and signed it.

 

Since I don't know the process of consulting with Lawyer like I heard sometimes even Lawyer try to get more money from us like Foriegners by knowing our condition and also the overall cost for consulting the lawyer.

 

And YorkshireLad6, I just stayed for 3 years and since that is my first rental home in Germany so he never gave me the home fully painted and also not written in contract to get it painted while leaving and now the Owner is not paying my Deposit amount.

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Hello Everybody,

 

Can anybody please help me to understand the lawyer process if I am going to hire a lawyer to get my deposit money back, I mean can anybody just provide what will be approximate fees for the lawyer to finish entire process.

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I've been living in my apartment for 4 years now and I have to leave Germany on short notice to attend to family matters long term back in my home country.

 

When notifying my landlord, she told me she wants all the walls painted white. I agreed with the previous tenant that I would renovate when moving in and he would give me his kitchen. So I ended up painted one wall a sandy colour (the rest white) and mounted some shelves on another. Since I feel I should leave the apartment in base condition (white walls with no holes in them), I agreed.

 

Now she's telling me she wants another coat of paint on all the walls, the doors, and the ceilings painted as well. I think that's fairly out of order considering I already renovated when I moved in.

 

And she's not been the best of landlords, for example, I locked myself out one time, called her to get a spare, she said she was driving and would call me back to arrange a pick up, and then promptly ignored me till the next day. Luckily I managed to crash at a friends place.

 

Since I really don't have time to do everything she's asking; what's the repercussions if I just decide to forfeit the deposit, don't pay the 3 month notice period rent, and leave the country with no idea if or when I will ever come back?

 

I believe all she has is a copy of my company contract, whom I no longer work for and haven't done so for the last 10 months, and a copy of my passport.

 

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Basically you renovated the flat on behalf of the previous tenant when you moved in. He could have done this himself but chose to pay you to do it (he gave you his kitchen). So the fact that you renovated when you moved in (more than 3 years ago) is irrelevant (because you were already paid for it). I can’t make any judgment about your landlady’s general behaviour but she has the legal right to ask you to repaint the flat (as long as your contract has a valid Schönheitsreparaturklausel, which most recent contracts have.

If the kitchen is worth anything you might try to get some form of compensation for it, although, if your landlady is as you described I would not raise my hopes.

If you don’t pay your last 3 months rent you’ll be in breach of contract and will be very likely sued by your landlady and possibly sentenced to pay for the rent arrears, renovation costs and legal expenses. I don’t know how easily the German courts’ jurisdiction can reach beyond German borders but the EU is currently working at simplifying and streamlining cross border enforcement of national EU sentences. However,one thing is sure, if you’re found guilty, next time you cross the German border you’ll have a nice welcoming committee.

Of course if the named tenant in the contract is your former employer then they will have to cough up and it’ll be up to them to try to recover the money from you.

Either way I’d try to find an amicable solution with the land lady rather than skipping bail.

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My understanding is that the rules have changed. It is no longer necessary to renovate if moving out. If this is in a contract it is not legal, and unenforcable. What you have to do is leave the apartment in the same state and condition as you took it over. If you have trashed it, you will need to decorate. If it is in the same condition or you have decorated while there, you should not have to. However, if all walls were neutral or white, and you have decorated to your own tastes (bright pink walls for eg), it would be reasonable to expect you to decorate.

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I painted all the colours back to the original white, I just wasn't impressed that she wanted the ceiling and other stuff done as well. I painted as much as I could in the time I had, left the ceiling and if she wants to hire a professional painter, she can take it out of my deposit.

 

The new law is that I don't have to renovate if I have lived there for less than 5 years as long as it's in the same condition as when I moved in. It's in that condition now but it's more effort than it's worth to argue it.

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but the thing is, she must be able to SEE that you didn't paint the ceiling, meaning it is not in good shape, otherwise how could she pick that out as something that needs to be done?

 

Also, as far as I know your landlord is not supposed to have a key to the apartment - can someone confirm or correct that?

 

Even if she does, it's rich to think she needs to hop to and get you that copy because you locked yourself out. It would be extraordinarily nice of her if she did do it, but she's not a jerk for not doing it. I find it pretty amazing you think she "is not the best landlord" because she didn't drop everything to bail your ass out of a situation of your own making, and that maybe that is justification for skipping out on your rent and/or renovation agreement.

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