Moving out of an apartment without renovating

161 posts in this topic

As I understand it is not(no longer) necessary to renovate when one moves out. Just wanted to know what your experiences have been.

 

Thanks

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Is that true? I just got a whole list of renovations served by the rental agent of the house I quit last month...a few hundred Euros at least!

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as far as i know its no longer necessary to paint every 2-5 years but you still gotta renovate when you move out, except if you had to renovate when you moved in

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Dont know how good your german is but this is an article about a ruling in weltonline.

 

basically it says you dont have to renovate if you used the place in a "normal" way. You do have to renovate if you broke a window for instance or had a marijuana joint running and everything smell "funny".

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Mit dem jetzigen Urteil hat der Mietsenat des BGH seine Rechtsprechung fortgeschrieben, wonach Schönheitsreparaturpflichten nicht nach starren Fristen verlangt werden können, sondern nur entsprechend dem tatsächlichen Renovierungsbedarf.

sounds to me like you dont have to renovate if the place looks ok and not as stated in the rental contract that one must renovate automatically when one moves out (even if you only lived there a short time).

 

@miwild is that link from 2000?

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The old Germans don't like or don't know about the new laws. You no longer have to do what they should have to do themselves. Get the law printed out, it is posted several times here on TT and one of the links is from me, and have it ready to do battle. They will insist until you stuff this in their faces and tell them to fuck off. Unfortunately, the law only changed after I had my problem with a really good landlord. That is to say he was good until we moved out!

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I'm excited already about taking my landlord to court for 1,500€ just cause hes a money thieving bugger <_<

 

even if I win the lawyer will take it all(at least)

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... @miwild is that link from 2000? ...

Don´t think so ... looks like the website was copyrighted in 2000

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... the law only changed after I had my problem with a really good landlord ...

The law as such didn´t change ... afaik

 

The BGH jurisdiction defined the duties of landlord and tenant more precisely though ... rendering a number of clauses in older (2003 - 2006) "standard" rental agreements invalid

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Is it possible to simply forfeit your deposit and let your hausverwaltung deal w/all the renos themselves or would you be setting yourself up for potential legal trouble? Assuming that the flat in question has a lot of "issues" that would take a fair amount of time, money and bother to correct...then again, the flat and building were in pretty dire condition to begin with, not sure how much difference that makes.

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My bad, it was indeed a court case that more properly defined the law that effectively "altered" it to a more just interpretation. ;)

 

Fruitbowl, it makes a lot of difference if you caused it!

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I had a look at a house I'm interested in and it was in a "not so great" condition(tenants been there for 22 years) to put it mildly. The Houseverwaltung made it very clear that they weren't gonna do *squat* since I wasen't liable for renovating when I move out.

 

I guess that makes it simple enough cause I have always gotten nice "white" places until now! So I don't understand why I should renovate the place I'm leaving if I have to stuff (5000€) money into the place I'm moving into?

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Changing flats in Germany really sucks. I don't know what it is like in the UK or Scandinavia or such, but renting here is a big pain. I have 2 kids and have to paint every room in the house. The living room floor is parkett and with my kids rolling their toy cars across it, you can imagine what it looks like now. Then the whole thing with kitchen and bathroom cabinets that we had installed is just proving to be one big headache.

In our last flat, we also had an agent come by to do the protocol. Turns out I also had to clean the windows! There was also a fairly deep scratch in the floor from the movers disassembling my ikea wardrobe. I couldn't prove it was them and I sure was not going to hire someone to sand and reseal the entire room. After much discussion with the landlady who had new tenants willing to overlook the scratch, we got out and got our deposit in full.

If I knew we would settle in one place for a significant amount of time, I would consider buying. But we had to paint the entire flat; fill in all the holes from the EBK, lighting, and shelves; and have the pale blue carpet cleaned. €€€€€.

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Are there any references/links out there which state that even if it is stated in the contract that the flat should be painted on moving out, the tenant is not obliged to do it (and still gets the deposit back)? I understand it's not legally binding but I may be wrong.

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In the States anyone renting apartments figures these sorts of "renovation" costs into the rent.

 

That is to say, you expect that you will have to putty holes in the walls when your tenants hang pictures; that they will scuff a wood floor so you will have to sand it and put down another coat of poly (this is why you put down poly in the first place!); that people will track dirt onto a carpet so you will have to get it shampoo'd.

 

The tenant pays for everything, but it's part of the cost of the apartment. Americans find it very confusing when we pay out the ass for rent and then, on top of that, they want more money to fix the place up for the next tenant.

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umm, sorry. that's simply just not true as a blanket statement about renting in the states. you damage stuff, the landlord can legally take it out of your deposit and send you a bill if the costs exceed the deposit - the time limit to say what the damage was and cost to fix and return partial or full deposits varies state to state. a lot of landlords and rental agencies also make part of the deposit automatically nonrefundable for necessary carpet cleaning as part of the lease. maybe you've been a clean renter and/or lucky and rented from people/agencies who don't do that in the states. but it can and does happen.

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Mit dem jetzigen Urteil hat der Mietsenat des BGH seine Rechtsprechung fortgeschrieben, wonach Schönheitsreparaturpflichten nicht nach starren Fristen verlangt werden können, sondern nur entsprechend dem tatsächlichen Renovierungsbedarf.

 

It states here quite clearly that its only the fixed time periods that are illegal,and that its only the stuff that needs renovating has to be renovated

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