Culture shock for Germans when visiting Australia

192 posts in this topic

 

As I have tried to explain, some of us actually try to answer questions. Others (Anglo-Saxons, judging from this thread) ask questions without being interested in the answer. Deciding that your way is right and the rest of us are wrong seems inappropriate to me. I'm just trying to explain why that behaviour annoys me, as it is apparently unfathomable to most people here. You may by all means be annoyed at me not asking you how you are doing, but I am likewise not trying to be impolite.

 

Ive tried it, and I don't like it. I don't give a bit about how the store clerk is doing, as long as he and I can perform an economic transaction.

 

I'm happy to accept that it's a cultural norm, fine.

What I can't understand is the justification for it.

 

You've got two choices, either go around in life being a grumpy twat, which has the implicit result of making other people unhappy, or go around feeling positive and friendly on the inside, which, whether it rubs off on anyone or not, and most likely here it doesn't, is surely a good thing?

 

Insincere or not, I'd rather not create a personal "us versus them" mentality every time I leave my apartment, it's a wilting experience.

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It's not about defending their behaviour, it's always about excusing the bad behaviour, by attributing it to German 'social norms' when in actual fact it is bottom line lack of courtesy/etiquette.

 

How can you point at Germans in Germany and say "the whole bunch lacks etiquette"? That's ethnocentrism at its best.

 

 

I'm happy to accept that it's a cultural norm, fine.

What I can't understand is the justification for it.

 

You've got two choices, either go around in life being a grumpy twat, which has the implicit result of making other people unhappy, or go around feeling positive and friendly on the inside, which, whether it rubs off on anyone or not, and most likely here it doesn't, is surely a good thing?

 

Insincere or not, I'd rather not create a personal "us versus them" mentality every time I leave my apartment, it's a wilting experience.

What you fail to understand is that I am perfectly happy and positive without feeling the need to ask others how they are doing, or expecting to be asked the same of them. It doesn't make others unhappy, unless they're from a different culture with different norms.

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I didn't my dear. If you read my first post I actually point out that some of the natives are fantastic. Just as some Yanks, Brits, Aussies etc. are also, and the others twats.

 

What I am saying is that YOU cannot describe this behaviour as the German 'norm'. It is not me generalising but yourself, and it is people like you that I'm targetting - those excusing such shoddy behaviour with that feeble excuse.

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"Egalitarianism is an artifact of colonial Australia. These days there are class structures the same as in any country. As for mateship, well this was a concept invented to convince young boys into going to war for England. These days its used to purvey various products and political causes, but in actuality Australians place far less value on friendships than in most cultures."

 

Jesus, what happened to you to make you so bitter and twisted?

 

Its not being bitter and twisted, its called: "recognising that all people have goods and bads and not being a naive little twat".

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That is a Bavarian-only (!!!) greeting

No it isn't, but please don't burden your delicate mind with too much information.

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I still refuse. I like the old "Servus!", if it is going to be boarisch. A lot of northern Germans find the whole "Grüß Gott" thing ridiculous as well.

 

Doesn't "good bye" come from "god be with ye?"

 

And bye is just a shortening of above...

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Most Australians will call you their "mate" but they wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. That goes even for close friends, in my humble experience. Don't get me wrong, we Australians have some endearing qualities, but our belief in "mateship" is hypocritical to the point of being revolting. I'll take a grumpy German any day of the week.

 

What bitter, twisted childhood did you have?

Just because you found that no-one would befriend you as a true friend and have a happy and lasting friendship in Australia (probably due to your lack of positivity) don't you dare say that we are all false!!!

 

Your close friends wouldn't piss on YOU if you were on fire, probably somthing to do with their true feelings towards you as a person...

 

You further go on to say that "Australians place far less value on friendships than in most cultures" hmmm NO... that's just you!!

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It's not about defending their behaviour, it's always about excusing the bad behaviour, by attributing it to German 'social norms' when in actual fact it is bottom line lack of courtesy/etiquette.

 

I see you still don't get it then.

How can it be bad behaviour when it is what is expected and normal?

 

Over friendly greetings from people I don't know creeps me out. I don't like people touching me (grabbing your upper arm or kissy kissy mwah stuff) because this is not part of my upbringing, this is sometimes known as English reserve, so you doing those things is for me a total lack of courtesy and etiquette and I would be appalled at such a display of bad manners and behaviour.

 

So are you an uncouth lout with no manners or are our social norms somewhat different?

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Sorry, I am generalising. I speak only of Australians with English/Irish heritage of course. Australians with Asian/Middle-Eastern/Eastern-European heritage are far more hospitable.

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English reserve - I consider myself 'English' and the things that freak you out, don't me. And you have a point, it is about upbringing, not necessarily country specific social norms.

'Norms' also evolve so that maybe 50 years ago a handshake would suffice however, today in the UK it is quite normal to have the mwah mwah lovey greeting on one or both cheeks.

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What you fail to understand is that I am perfectly happy and positive without feeling the need to ask others how they are doing

 

Really?

Sure as fuck doesn't sound like it.

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I don't like people touching me (grabbing your upper arm or kissy kissy mwah stuff) because this is not part of my upbringing.

 

You didn't have a grandma?

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I see you still don't get it then.

How can it be bad behaviour when it is what is expected and normal?

 

Over friendly greetings from people I don't know creeps me out. I don't like people touching me (grabbing your upper arm or kissy kissy mwah stuff) because this is not part of my upbringing, this is sometimes known as English reserve, so you doing those things is for me a total lack of courtesy and etiquette and I would be appalled at such a display of bad manners and behaviour.

 

So are you an uncouth lout with no manners or are our social norms somewhat different?

 

Let me rephrase this in a more polite way, which would probably help get your point across without escalating things:

 

"I can see that we still don't fully understand each other.

Germans don't see this as bad behavior because it is what is expected and normal to them. I, however understand that it might not seem normal to others.

Just like I perceive over friendly greetings from people I don't know as being not normal. They creep me out. I don't like people touching me because this is not part of my upbringing, although I understand that it is part of other cultures' upbringing and can respect that. So you doing those things is for me a total lack of courtesy and etiquette, just like you perceive Germans appearing grumpy as a total lack of courtesy.

It seems that our definition of was is socially acceptable and normal differ. So let's agree to disagree. "

Guys, it's Friday afternoon. The sun is back out. Chill out and grab a Helles. :D

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Sorry, I am generalising. I speak only of Australians with English/Irish heritage of course. Australians with Asian/Middle-Eastern/Eastern-European heritage are far more hospitable.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you are too funny.

Obviously the Scots went to NZ instead, eh?

 

So what happened? Your so-called best mate with an Irish dad shagged your girl or something?

 

Sure, there are some Australian Bums, you should meet an ex of mine, he was an absolute Grade A one, but my current man is Melburnian and he's an absolute gem. There's quite a group of long-term Australian expats down here in Munich, the meet-ups are a hoot and it's a tight knit bunch. But if it makes you feel better to think otherwise, go right ahead.

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Don't get me started on Scots and Kiwis.

 

...and I hate all Dads.

 

...and Australian bums.

 

...and expat Aussies living in Munich, fuck who do they think they are?

 

...and I especially hate people who can't spell Melbourne.

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There are those differing norms again.

Important to spot the difference.

 

post-12567-12526750435116.jpg Norm! Norm!

 

post-12567-12526750622644.jpg Norm? Norm?

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