Smoking ban in Berlin

224 posts in this topic

I agree :)

 

And like I said I don't mind if people choose to smoke, just like I don't care if people choose to do drugs or whatever. I just don't like when it affects me :)

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Us smokers know that the ban is going to happen and will be inforced, so quit whinging about it, and let us have our last few cancer sticks in peace.

Um, yeah, the ban is already on the books. Just because they're not fining anyone doesn't mean it's okay to ignore the law, especially when you're irritating and harming those around you in the process.

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As a smoker myself, I say bring the ban on. There are many benefits:

Ya end up smoking less, which does the bank balance a wee bit of good.

It's get the sanctimonious shower of non-smoking cunts off yer back, as you're no longer infringing their right to breathe.

The aforementioned shower can no longer generally wreck yer head/inform you of the ills of smoking/lecture you...etc re: your own personal choice.

And finally, the most craic is to be had out with the smokers, as can be seen in pubs all across Dublin for instance, where the "beer gardens" are full of smokers and non-smokers alike.

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Thank God a little bit of Berliner rebellion is still alive and well, and the smoking ban is being largely ignored. It's caused a significant downturn here in the UK ... less people are in the pubs and clubs ( which now smell of feet, cheese and onion crisps and cheap scent), the non-smokers hate it because they are constantly abandoned by their friends every twenty minutes, loads of bars have shut, bar workers have been fired, gigs have a totally diferent atmosphere.

The whole sanctimonious nonsense about "my right to breathe" is ridiculous coming from anyone who lives in a built-up urban area. A walk down Oxford Street in London has been scientifically proven to be the equivalent of smoking two cigarettes. Berlin's air quality is even worse, especially in the East. So how about live and let live with the smokers, and do something a bit more radical instead ... LIKE BAN CARS? It's crazy to see a smug non-smoker walk through Los Angeles, London, Beijing or Berlin congratulating themselves on their new-found ability to breathe, whilst sucking in huge lungfuls of car, bus, etc fumes.

 

And I have to agree with Schotte ... you're right, fella, a disproportionate amount of interesting people smoke, whilst God knows a lot of non-smokers' idea of a wild night out is to sit in a Starbucks.

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Thank God a little bit of Berliner rebellion is still alive and well, and the smoking ban is being largely ignored. It's caused a significant downturn here in the UK ... less people are in the pubs and clubs ( which now smell of feet, cheese and onion crisps and cheap scent), the non-smokers hate it because they are constantly abandoned by their friends every twenty minutes, loads of bars have shut, bar workers have been fired, gigs have a totally diferent atmosphere.

The whole sanctimonious nonsense about "my right to breathe" is ridiculous coming from anyone who lives in a built-up urban area. A walk down Oxford Street in London has been scientifically proven to be the equivalent of smoking two cigarettes. Berlin's air quality is even worse, especially in the East. So how about live and let live with the smokers, and do something a bit more radical instead ... LIKE BAN CARS? It's crazy to see a smug non-smoker walk through Los Angeles, London, Beijing or Berlin congratulating themselves on their new-found ability to breathe, whilst sucking in huge lungfuls of car, bus, etc fumes.

 

And I have to agree with Schotte ... you're right, fella, a disproportionate amount of interesting people smoke, whilst God knows a lot of non-smokers' idea of a wild night out is to sit in a Starbucks.

Wow, hands down the most idiotic thing I have read from anyone on this forum, and saying it seriously makes it even worse. Smoking never made anyone interesting since the 40's (just pathetic). Once the dust (or smoke) settled, restaurant owners loved the smoking ban back home when they realized that a whole new segment of society, namely non-smokers, (and a much larger one than the smokers) suddenly patronized their establishments. So stop it with this "bad for business" BS and the selfish rights of a handful of weak minded cancerous individuals. If you can learn to enjoy it when someone is waving toxic dog shit under your nose when you are trying to enjoy a meal, then we'll talk. On top of that, us non-smokers have to support your inflated and increased medical bills, sick days from work and having to stand or sit anywhere near your stinking carcases.

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Roman,

 

You know I'm a non-smoker, and I agree with you for the most part. I don't believe smoking bar is "bad for business" as the statistics trotted out by bar owners are typically comparing low season revenue to high season revenue, rather than on a year on year comparison.

 

But, as far as the increased medical bills, here's where I'm starting to waver. About a month of so ago, the Netherlands National Institute for Public Health and the Environment did a study which was funded by the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports (medicine.plosjournals.org), and looked at the annual and lifetime costs attributable to smoking. Under their simulation models, lifetime health spending on smokers was about 220,000 euros. Healthy (non-smokers, BMI btw 18.5-25) - 281,000. While year on year costs were higher for smokers, lifetime spending was higher for healthy people. The reason? The smokers had a significantly lower lifespan - about seven years (84.4 years vs 77.4).

 

Bottom line, I'm not quite convinced at the moment the medical bills argument works. But the all the other arguments work for me. Especially the one about how I don't want to have to smell like smoke when I come home, nor do I particularly care about getting second hand exposure.

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an anecdote from my neighborhood...

nearby there is a cafe called Lenz. Its an institution - especially with the '68 revolutionaries. Excellent coffee and smoke so thick you cant find your way to the bathroom. Last fall, one of the long time Lenz waitresses got lung cancer. No shit. Lenz decided on their own accord to go non smoking back in October because it was the right thing to do. It's not fair to employees that they work in such an environment with constant passive smoke.

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so if you take a job at a restaurant, bar, cafe, hairdresser (yes, they smoke it up at the hairdresser in Berlin), bakery (smoking cafe sections), pizza delivery, döner stand ...its your fault if you get lung cancer because you made the choice? Think of all the broke 20 somethings in school just trying to make a few extra bucks. Nobody wants to sign up for lung cancer.

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Well, if it's a known smoking establishment, you'd have to be a bit thick to not know what the dangers may be. No one forces you to work in a smokey pub or cafe...that's your choice.

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my point is that EVERYTHING is a well known smoking establishment in Berlin. It's out of control and that's why we need the ban.

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Can't say that's been my experience...infact I haven't been in to one establishment where there was any smoking...maybe you live on the wrong side of the tracks?

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it hasn't been your experience to encounter smoking at bars, restaurants and cafes in Berlin? I'm going to let this one go with a long hard chuckle.

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vincecanada, did they also take into consideration the amount of money they spend on cigarettes during their lives or just money spent on health system? because then, surely the smokers would spend a lot more..

 

if i think of people i know and how much they smoke.. one packet must be about 4 euros (right? i'm not exactly sure about this because i don't smoke myself) so they'd have about 1 every other day. (365:2)x4= 730 euros a year! so supposing you live about 60 years and you've started smoking at the age of 18, 730x18= 13,140 euros in a lifetime.. so yeah still it would be cheaper to be a smoker, if you then add the 13,140 to 220k

 

i think i'd still not be a smoker :P

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Johnsoda - the study basically examined health care costs.

 

It wasn't completely perfect, as it didn't take into account costs drawn out on public pension schemes, lost productivity due to time off work, informal caretakers, etc.. I mean, if you really wanted to go in depth, you could draw out the portion that the smokers paid in cigarette taxes to offset health costs, etc..

 

But I think you're mixing apples and cigarettes, by combining the cost of health care plus the cost of cigarettes to get your total, which I don't think is the right equation.

 

My only point was to throw caution on using the "health care costs" argument.

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