Irish nationalism

139 posts in this topic

a friend of mine's father was a champion boxer at University, he was also the University Captain of the local territorial army (called the FCA in Ireland) and hence held the key to a gun cabinet. the local IRA division asked him if he would give up the key to which he gave them an unequivocal "Fuck no" - so rather than having the guts to face him, 4 of them beat him with iron bars... and that is precisely the kind of people that vote Sinn Fein.

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These people make me sick at the best of times when they blew up british trumpeters and english school children. But the more I hear about how they treated "their own" for want of a better word, the more find it difficult to understand how anybody ever supported them as a representative group.

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These people make me sick at the best of times ...

You and many Irish people alike.

 

What's scary is there is so much fear at speaking out (particularly in Northern Ireland) due to fear of punishment beatings, that many of the thugs and criminals masquerading as fighting for a political cause cannot be prosecuted. The police from both sides just can't get witnesses to stand up in court.

 

After another recent brutal attack, police from Ireland and Northern Ireland went together door-to-door in neighbouring communities begging for people to come forward. There were many people who witnessed what happened, but they couldn't get a single person to make a statement.

 

Now that the peace process is slowly inching its way forward, the political cause is no longer a justification for fighting. However, the criminals, thugs, tribal warfare, drug dealers, mini-mafia members remain and continue to cause trouble.

 

I'm certain there are some genuine people involved in politics, trying to sort out the mess and move towards true democracy. Unfortunately, its very difficult to know who to trust. You can't tell the difference between criminals and people seeking peace. Sinn Féin have a very dody history, to put it mildly. It is only to be expected that the vast majority of people in Ireland (note Ireland, not Northern Ireland!) cannot trust them immediately.

 

But in reference to the original topic - at the risk of sounding patronising, pride at being Irish is not necessarily the same as someone's political views. I'll correct anyone who calls me English very bloody quickly, but I will still never vote for Sinn Féin!

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I always found the story of Jean McConville quite sad.

 

 

In January 2005, Sinn Féin party chairman, Mitchel McLaughlin, claimed that the killing of Jean McConville was not a criminal act.

 

In response to McLaughlin's statement, Social Democratic and Labour Party Justice Spokesperson Alban Maginness suggested that the IRA were culpable for War crimes as Jean McConville was "killed ‘without previous judgement pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all judicial guarantees which are generally recognised as indispensable’, and that constitutes a war crime in the definition of the International Criminal Court". A second war crime occurred by the IRA’s ‘ refusal to acknowledge deprivation of [her] freedom or to give information on [her] fate or whereabouts’".

but at least her 10 children have some closure now details of the body-location were kindly given, though the body was actually later discovered by chance.

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These people make me sick at the best of times when they blew up british trumpeters and english school children. But the more I hear about how they treated "their own" for want of a better word, the more find it difficult to understand how anybody ever supported them as a representative group.

And I cannot tell you how sorry I am about those kids, or tell how many others how these people are anything but "mine"... they are the very lowest form of human life ... not only that but as evidenced on this thread they will tell you that they are no different from everyone else and hence wish to tar all Irish people with the stench of their corruption.

 

No topcat1 , you are not representative of the vast vast majority of Irish and other people and indeed the vast majority of us find you and yours to be repulsive and beneath contempt.

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...the political cause is no longer a justification for fighting.

Was it ever? What the hell did all those people actualy die for? A nostalgic drunken notion financed by romantic Americans? (Sorry thats me being cynical - there was a horribly black and dark satanic smile on my face when 9/11 happened.)

 

I'm the first to be objective about it all, as parnell knows, and see where both sides hardened their fronts.

 

Did you feel that the indiscriminate blowing up of commuters at Waterloo station was a valid political act? I didn't. Or the proxy suicide car bombings? Sorry, I can't quiet get the political slant there.

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Was it ever? What the hell did all those people actualy die for?

No, I personally don't think the political cause ever justified the killings.

 

I was obliquely referring to the violence to gain independence from the UK, and thereafter Northern Ireland. I've a vague memory of history lessons in Ireland, please excuse my shaky knowledge here.

 

We learned about all the various activists trying to gain Irish independence from the UK - some of them attempted to do so by violent means and others attempted to do so by peaceful means. Fast forward a bit, and then we had the Treaty of Independence and the whole Michael Collins saga. Cue Civil war in Ireland and a country split down the middle, both fighting for causes they believed in. The violence at that time was based on a political cause, and from what I understand was the start of various groups like the IRA etc. Not good what they were doing, but many people truly believed their actions were justified.

 

I wasn't alive then, and I don't have enough of an understanding of the situation at the time to pass judgment.

 

Fast forward a bit more, to when the large-scale opression and discrimination in Northern Ireland started the Troubles. Religion, cultural background, the street you grew up in, even your name was the basis for belonging to a particular tribe - whether you wanted to or not. Some people felt hugely discriminated against, or feared for their lives, or were filled with hate, or whatever - I'm not an expert on this. This sowed the seeds for the violence and back-and-forth killings that escalated into a senseless, disgusting waste of innocent lives.

 

Somewhere along the road, the political cause was thrown aside and used as a screen to hide the horrific violence we're all aware of. But a hell of a long time ago, there was a reason behind it all. Whether even that was justified or not, is a completely different issue.

 

But just to re-iterate, I don't think there was ever any justification for the violence. It disgusts, embarrasses and deeply saddens me. I, and many of my family members have often cried and despaired when watching the latest news on this topic, due to actions by all parties. My relatives live in Belfast, and we have all shared the full horror of the situation. Of course I hate the violence.

 

But because it is so important to me and people I know, I try to understand it. I try to get inside the minds of these people, work out how they think and what they believe in. I don't try to justify their actions.

 

Hope this clarifies what I'm trying to say ...

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Thread revival

 

(video) Queen begins two-day Northern Ireland visit

"The Queen has begun a two-day visit to Northern Ireland as part of her Diamond Jubilee tour. The Queen's itinerary will also include a meeting with former IRA leader and NI's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness."

 

Queen meets victims of IRA bombing

 

(video) Sinn Fein MP: Queen visit to 'further reconciliation'

 

Reaction to Martin McGuinness and Queen meeting

Martin McGuinness' journey from IRA leader to meeting the Queen

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Given that her husband's uncle was killed by the IRA, in the Queen's shoes I'd be very pleased that protocol required me to keep my gloves on when shaking hands with Martin McGuiness.

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Given that her husband's uncle was killed by the IRA, in the Queen's shoes I'd be very pleased that protocol required me to keep my gloves on when shaking hands with Martin McGuiness.

 

 

 

It can of course be justifiable argued that both Martin and Elizabeth belong to organisations with blood on their hands.... So gloves for both may be more appropriate.

 

"Some day, this war's gonna end." - Lt. Col. Kilgore

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(Video) Prince Philip deliberately avoided McGuinness, says royal historian

How to make a 90-year-old move off at speed: have an ex terrorist sneak up from behind and try to make smalltalk. Wonder how many "gaffes" have been dropped so far out of earshot of the media.

 

 

Butcher of Bogside to brave statesman

I remember driving through the Bogside in Derry late one evening with a newspaper correspondent when we realised Martin McGuinness and one of his associates were in a car behind us. They must have followed us for 15 minutes after that.

Both of us were really scared. "Christ," said my friend. "He's the one they call the Butcher of the Bogside."

When, eventually, the other car peeled off, my friend and I stopped and shook hands with each other, as if we had just escaped a particularly nasty death.

 

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I bought three bottles of Guiness today. I know I know thats blasphemy to drink Guiness from a bottle esp in Bavaria but like my friends back home say...fuck the Canadians.

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I once had a taxi driver in Dublin saying to me in a matter-of-fact way that he preferred bottled Guinness to pints as you were consistently guaranteed the same flavour.

 

Each to their own!

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Thought this was very interesting, as i dont know much about the "Troubles" and the history behind it.

 

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/the-vice-guide-to-belfast-full-length

 

Omega.Man

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Very interesting, OmegaMan. It definitely conveys the impression that "community"/"heritage"/"culture" there is a euphemism for something else and would be better forgotten.

 

Would be interesting to know what people outside the UK/Ireland think when they see that. It must seem a very backward place.

 

Glasgow: Are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?

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