Irish nationalism

139 posts in this topic

Would just like to recommend a book called:

 

Cromwell an Honourable Enemy.

The untold story of the Cromwellian Invasion of Ireland by Tom Reilly

 

Now I am aware that I have probably opened another can of worms here, but what the heck. It is an interesting book that puts forward a different view.

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Truth be told, as an Irishman, without the help of accent to guide me, if you were to take an average young person from England and a similar young person from Ireland, for most cases, you'd have a hard time telling them apart.

West Brit/Mid-Atlantic accent. Neither applicable nor common outside The Pale. Unless you worked for Atlantic Radio.

 

 

Maybe someday, someone will write a book: How the Americans Saved Irish Civilization.

The Concise History Of Noraid perchance? That's admittedly fatuous, Clinton played a healthy role in promulgating a feasible and lasting peace in British Ulster.

 

 

Ireland has welcomed immigrants from Eastern Europe and elsewhere in a relatively-speaking very welcoming way.

Relatively speaking, you need to get in queue in say, Swords, and listen to the choice words of the lads being turned away from their lifelong local by Polish bouncers with "Sorry, no Irish, tonight is Polish night." Neither prosaic nor words that relate to tolerance. The Evening Herald now has a Polish edition though.

 

It'll piss nationalists off no end, but the truth of the matter in 1916 was that many people felt a kind of shame to have an "element" actively taking advantage of The Great War to stage a rebellion. One of the biggsest initial problems for our fledgling self-governance was convincing the populace that independence was viable, there was the real and constant threat of re-seceding to the crown, as the country looked set to implode during the Civil War. In contemporary terms, many Irish felt a valid and tenable allegiance to the crown (how many served in WW1, or WW2 for that matter? I've grandparents on both side that took the Kings shilling, WRAF, Merchants Navy, Cavalry, Boer War even, my granduncles name is up on Traitors Arch in Stephens Green) and were it not for consistent and intelligent work of some very fine politicians, Dublin would've gladly handed back governance to London, such was the difficulty in governing such a divided land, with seemingly unurmountable economic problems.

 

Ireland is a very fickle beast. First telegram of condolence on Hitlers death but consistently supported the Allies, albeit clandestinely, during WW2. Irish political allegiance damals has parallels with pubtalk, great big happy face when you're lookin' at him, crackin' pint glasses, promising the world, turn your back and instead of a pot of gold you'll get arse, if donkey, that's just been promised from a blind cobblers rocket manufacturer. You get the picture. Funny bunch, consistently inconsistent, and we mostly like it that way. We're still radically different to the Sassanachs, we share a language and occasionally the craic. But that's it. We don't dislike the English, least not anymore. We share a language, some common cultural references, thanks to TV/other media, and most all our best creatives end up peddling their wares in London. But we're not the same. We're Irish, you're English, like nettles and dock leaves, cheese and yoghurt, Germans and Danes, slightly similar but forever different. Which isn't a bad thing.

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But we're not the same. We're Irish, you're English, like nettles and dock leaves, cheese and yoghurt, Germans and Danes, slightly similar but forever different. Which isn't a bad thing.

Certainly plenty to think about on this thread but I rather like that last bit. Nicely expressed. :) And up at the crack of dawn to do it. That´s dedication!

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We don't dislike the English, least not anymore... But we're not the same. We're Irish, you're English, like nettles and dock leaves, cheese and yoghurt, Germans and Danes, slightly similar but forever different. Which isn't a bad thing.

Very nicely put, I'd agree with this summary :)

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I heard my first anti-English remark at a board meeting of a large multi national company in Dublin in 1995, exactly one week after being transferred there from the UK, so the cliche that this anti -English feeling emanates from the lower classes is completely off the mark. There is an intense hatred of England and the English, even from the rugby going fraternity in Lansdowne Road, although I am not quite sure of the reason for this. However, what really riles me is the inability of these people to call a spade, a spade because when confronted with a topic such as the one BD has brought up here, they revert to acting as if they are one of the English crew and just the same as any Englishman; such duplicity is appalling.

So you're claiming to have gone through your entire adolesence without having heard a single anti-English remark??? Jingle Bells???

 

Secondly this "cliche" :

 

You might remember the silence and respect given to God Save the Queen at Croke Park this year - as well as the universal and embittered criticism given to the likes of this Celtic-shirt-wearing gobshite (see picture below). Sorry but I played and mixed in rugby fraternities throughout most of my life and if there was one given and absolute it was an absolute hatred not of the English but of the scum-sucking criminal parasites that wrap themselves in the Irish flag , sympathise with baby killers and pledge IRA sympathies.

 

Sinn Fein is not the party of the middle class , it is firmly the party of the lower and criminal classes or are you claiming otherwise?

 

 

As for corruption, bribery and fraud, I found it to be innate and not just exclusive to Fianna Fail; there was and still is a brown envelope culture in Ireland, it is all about who you know and not what you know, us Irish as a race just do things differently than the straight laced Englishman (or so stereotypes would have you believe).

Dollars to donuts you're Fianna Fail yourself. That culture grew up under Charles Haughey (Fianna Fail) , continued under Albert Reynolds (FF) , failed to take root in Fianna Gael (Lowry booted out) and now continues under anorak-man Ahern. So kindly tell me where else you came across it?

 

post-449-1200300828.jpg

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The way I see it, and correct me if I am wrong, the Irish are a Gaelic and Danish mix where as England had this mix but also England had the additional mix of the Viking Normans and the Saxons. Ireland got a bit of this mix when the English mix went over there.

I would like to know how many people in England have some Irish blood in them - I would say a very high percentage.

Nationalism however (Irish, English or otherwise) really does stink - it stinks of shit. We are all citizens of planet earth in my opinion.

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Here's a clever article from one of the Irish papers during the world cup last year. There are some underlying home-truths and its not surprising when country springs to mind when your reading it...

 

Anyone but THEM………………………

 

Its hard watching them win. Every true Irishman has something in his

genetic makeup that rebels against the thought. Anyone but them.

Anyone but those arrogant bastards.

 

Its not that we actively hate them. Most of us would be hard pressed to

even dislike them. Truth be told, we quite like them. They are after

all our neighbours, and in recent years, we've even seen them buying

houses in the Irish countryside, living among us.

 

And lets face it, even before they started moving here, most of us

lived

among them. We've all worked there at some point in our lives,

though of course the entire time we dreamed of the day when we'd have enough

money saved to move back home.

 

Some of us returned with husbands and wives we found there, a few

Even married among them and settled there. Your heart goes out to them,

knowing their kids will grow up with *that* accent.

 

So its not that we dislike them. Most of them are the salt of the

Earth, as decent a collection of human beings as you could hope to find

anywhere on the planet. How can you dislike an ordinary fan, whose

only sin is shouting for his team. Sure don't we do the same ourselves?

 

But its the arrogance that gets you. Every team goes through good

patches and bad, but the rest of us don't have that same imperial

swagger. Something about it just sticks in the craw. I mean there

they are, still three tough games away from taking the cup home, and

already they're talking like they're unstoppable, when lets face it, they're

far from the best team in the competition.

 

So yes, it was hard watching Dublin beat Laois last weekend.

This is getting fierce personal! :o sob! I'm a Dub bread n' buttered. But haven't the accent. Spent too much time working with culchies, people sometimes place me in the Midlands. I reckon you're just sore Corcaigh over that whole we're the real Capital of Ireland thingy...blah, blah, blah! :P

Now am going over to read what how the English decribe themselves on that other thread for your man's school project. God I've got to get a life and stop reading these boards! :lol:

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Which is all the more shameful when you see how racist the Irish are towards the traveller community...

A fair and very important point.

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There are a number of genetic disease assoicated with celtic peoples which have their highest rates in Ireland - haemochromatosis, cystic fibrosis & celiac disease being classic examples. This implies that there is still a certain genetic distinction. QED.

Next topic

One or two different alleles aren't significant - for a population to differentiate there'd have to be either significant admixture from another population or prolonged geographic isolation (thousands or tens of thousands of years) or selective pressure or all three. Numerous genetic studies show that none of these things have happened. To all intents and purposes the populations of Britain and Ireland are genetically the same.

 

Genetic similarity has very little to do with inter-communal strife though.

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So you're claiming to have gone through your entire adolesence without having heard a single anti-English remark??? Jingle Bells???

Ok let’s clarify that remark: in business circles, until I came to Dublin, I never heard a disparaging remark about the English, their way of life or the way that they conducted business. Perhaps I hit a raw nerve in that I was responsible for introducing processes to this company that were to be modelled on those carried out in the organisation on the UK mainland. The term mainland seemed to be the impetus for the anti- English sentiment.

 

 

Secondly this "cliche" :

 

You might remember the silence and respect given to God Save the Queen at Croke Park this year - as well as the universal and embittered criticism given to the likes of this Celtic-shirt-wearing gobshite (see picture below). Sorry but I played and mixed in rugby fraternities throughout most of my life and if there was one given and absolute it was an absolute hatred not of the English but of the scum-sucking criminal parasites that wrap themselves in the Irish flag , sympathise with baby killers and pledge IRA sympathies.

As part of the rugby going fraternity you surely must have come across songs like Kevin Barry, the Fields of Athenry being sung, or perhaps you don’t think that they are faintly nationalistic. As a Northern Irishman I never had difficulty in holding my wist for the national anthem of any other country, why should my compatriots be any different, or maybe they are...

 

 

Sinn Fein is not the party of the middle class , it is firmly the party of the lower and criminal classes or are you claiming otherwise?

This remark just shows that you are a carbon copy of the people you say you most despise because you have the ability to tar all factions of any grouping with the one brush. If you knew anything about people you would realise that you get rotten apples in every barrel, whether they be rugby players, Shinners, Provos, Stickies, Fianna Failers, Fianna Gaelers, DUP, Protestant paramilitaries, British soldiers, Protestants, Catholics or any other grouping you would care to mention.

 

And honestly this is truly warped elitism on your part; Sinn Fein is the second largest party in Northern Ireland and the largest nationalist party; the DUP is the largest party and the largest unionist party. Might I hasten to add as a Sinn Fein voter all my five children went to Rainey EndowedGrammar School in Magherafelt where the major sports were rugby and cricket for boys, and hockey and netball for girls. Unlike you my polictical allegiance did not colour what I thought or did; I sent my children to that school because it offered them the best all round education and there was no one there who was not aware of my political leanings.

 

 

Dollars to donuts you're Fianna Fail yourself. That culture grew up under Charles Haughey (Fianna Fail) , continued under Albert Reynolds (FF) , failed to take root in Fianna Gael (Lowry booted out) and now continues under anorak-man Ahern. So kindly tell me where else you came across it?

Well guess what my son you are wrong yet again. Good job you are no politician!! So I am definitely not Fianna Fail, my roots would be more Fianna Gael. My Grandfather fought as an IRA man in the War of Independence, and was an officer in the Free State Army during the Civil War. People tend to forget that that particular brand of Sinn Fein and IRA were responsible for Irish Independence and in fact the roots of nationalist parties north and south can be traced back to this time.

 

Thank God there are others like Punchbear who have an understanding of Irish history, as he points out most Irish families are consistently inconsistent; there are members of mine that were in the British army up to and during the Troubles and contradictory as it may seem several that were members of the IRA during its various incarnations, both North and South. Indeed, there were a few that did both.

 

In some ways I might disagree with Punchbear, I would not be a fan of WT Cosgrove for example, who although he did a good job in having the Free State recognised as a country, he was responsible for more Republican executions after 1916 than the British ever were but then you would see him without sin parnell because he is Fine Gael.

 

As I said my Grandfather was Pro-Treaty because he believed that the North would become part of the South in any case as the Boundary commission would make it politically and economically unviable. I know he like many other Northerners would have chosen the other side if they had realised that their dream of a United Ireland would be compromised by a secret "Irish debt" renegotiation that would leave Northern Ireland intact after the Boundary Commission.

 

So the brown envelope culture existed long before you were born; in fact for centuries that is the one thing that Irish men were adept at and I personally will not divulge my experience but let us just say it was prevalent in the finance industry, amongst others, which I am sure you must have some knowledge of...

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To be fair , I'm all for moving on from the past , but the sight of a couple of thousand celebrating shit-faced Germans on the Jewish day of commemoration , especially close to their monument could be a little much.

Doesnt cost much to be , at least a little sensitive.

 

Says the man who classifies all Sinn Fein supporters as child molesters ah but I forgot he is all for moving on from the past so that means he does not generalise all catholic priests as child molesters as well, being the good catholic that he is. Don't worry parnell (shame on you you steriod fuck for choosing that name; he was a fuck but not a droggie) i am coming back to you on slagging us lower class big time...

 

Eh? "What bank do you use Gerry , the Northern Bank ?" , wrong thread pal ... I've never met an honest/decent Sinn Fein supporter in my life , how could they be when Sinn Fein are no more than career criminals hiding beneath a political veil? So I'm a steroid fuck huh? Ah what exactly is a "fuck" in your context?

 

Nice to have you out in the open tho... must get lonely and bitter out there.

And replying on the Jewish thread was not a mistake because I wanted to highlight your bigotry although I will apologize for calling you a fuck, which was unwarranted.

 

But take a read at this report from The Independent Monitoring Commission and maybe you can update your opinions...

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Lesson learned: nobody fights the Irish better than other Irish. At least when it comes to a war of words.

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Ok let’s clarify that remark: in business circles, until I came to Dublin, I never heard a disparaging remark about the English, their way of life or the way that they conducted business. Perhaps I hit a raw nerve in that I was responsible for introducing processes to this company that were to be modelled on those carried out in the organisation on the UK mainland. The term mainland seemed to be the impetus for the anti- English sentiment.

 

As part of the rugby going fraternity you surely must have come across songs like Kevin Barry, the Fields of Athenry being sung, or perhaps you don’t think that they are faintly nationalistic. As a Northern Irishman I never had difficulty in holding my wist for the national anthem of any other country, why should my compatriots be any different, or maybe they are...

 

This remark just shows that you are a carbon copy of the people you say you most despise because you have the ability to tar all factions of any grouping with the one brush. If you knew anything about people you would realise that you get rotten apples in every barrel, whether they be rugby players, Shinners, Provos, Stickies, Fianna Failers, Fianna Gaelers, DUP, Protestant paramilitaries, British soldiers, Protestants, Catholics or any other grouping you would care to mention.

 

And honestly this is truly warped elitism on your part; Sinn Fein is the second largest party in Northern Ireland and the largest nationalist party; the DUP is the largest party and the largest unionist party. Might I hasten to add as a Sinn Fein voter all my five children went to Rainey EndowedGrammar School in Magherafelt where the major sports were rugby and cricket for boys, and hockey and netball for girls. Unlike you my polictical allegiance did not colour what I thought or did; I sent my children to that school because it offered them the best all round education and there was no one there who was not aware of my political leanings.

 

Well guess what my son you are wrong yet again. Good job you are no politician!! So I am definitely not Fianna Fail, my roots would be more Fianna Gael. My Grandfather fought as an IRA man in the War of Independence, and was an officer in the Free State Army during the Civil War. People tend to forget that that particular brand of Sinn Fein and IRA were responsible for Irish Independence and in fact the roots of nationalist parties north and south can be traced back to this time.

 

Thank God there are others like Punchbear who have an understanding of Irish history, as he points out most Irish families are consistently inconsistent; there are members of mine that were in the British army up to and during the Troubles and contradictory as it may seem several that were members of the IRA during its various incarnations, both North and South. Indeed, there were a few that did both.

 

In some ways I might disagree with Punchbear, I would not be a fan of WT Cosgrove for example, who although he did a good job in having the Free State recognised as a country, he was responsible for more Republican executions after 1916 than the British ever were but then you would see him without sin parnell because he is Fine Gael.

 

As I said my Grandfather was Pro-Treaty because he believed that the North would become part of the South in any case as the Boundary commission would make it politically and economically unviable. I know he like many other Northerners would have chosen the other side if they had realised that their dream of a United Ireland would be compromised by a secret "Irish debt" renegotiation that would leave Northern Ireland intact after the Boundary Commission.

 

So the brown envelope culture existed long before you were born; in fact for centuries that is the one thing that Irish men were adept at and I personally will not divulge my experience but let us just say it was prevalent in the finance industry, amongst others, which I am sure you must have some knowledge of...

Not the criminal classes eh??? Couple of words here about who you support. As it's Sunday I'll leave it there but will be back tomoro bright and early if you wish to take your terrorist chums and you apart on the board.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in

 

"On 20 February 2005, Irish Minister for Justice Michael McDowell publicly accused three of the Sinn Féin leadership, Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Martin Ferris TD for Kerry North) of being on the seven-man IRA Army Council. Gerry Adams denied this at an address in Strabane and Martin McGuinness denied the allegations in a TV interview on RTÉ."

 

On 10 February 2005, the government-appointed Independent Monitoring Commission reported that it firmly supported the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and Garda assessments that the Provisional IRA was responsible for the Northern Bank robbery and that certain senior members of Sinn Féin were also senior members of the Provisional IRA and would have had knowledge of and given approval to the carrying out of the robbery

 

On the 22nd May 2006 Mitchell McLaughlin, the Sinn Fein Assembly Member for Foyle appeared on the BBC Radio 4 Today Programme. He was asked to explain what exactly Sinn Fein had achieved for its supporters. His answer was: "The degree of uncertainty and the lack of confidence in the unionist community". This was seen by many as an unusually honest admission by a Sinn Fein member that their strategy in Northern Ireland is based on creating instability within the unionist community.

As long as our "wars" continue to be ones of words.

In marked contrast to those you support who happily knee-cap those who encroach on their illegal activities. Well you're a consistent one aren't you?

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Come on parnell you can do better than that. You are cherry picking again and not up to date. You have obviously not read the 17th report from the Independent Monitoring Commission which I posted (nor the previous ten) that all stated that the IRA as an organisation was no longer involved in acts of criminality. Indeed any of the historical facts that I posted you choose to ignore or is that because you are incapable of dealing with the facts.

 

Even Michael Mc Dowell moved with the times

 

 

Mr Hain said that an "absolute state of perfection" from the IRA was not realistic.

 

"There probably is still some localised individual criminality by former and maybe existing Provisional IRA members for their own private gain," he said.

 

"What there is not is organised 'from the centre' criminality any more."

 

"To that extent the IRA are delivering on their commitments made last July, not just in respect of shutting down paramilitary activity but also shutting down criminality."

 

Assessment backed

 

Mr Hain was speaking after meeting Irish government ministers Dermot Ahern and Michael McDowell in Hillsborough, County Down.

 

Irish Justice Minister Mr McDowell, who has been strongly critical of republicans in the past, backed Mr Hain's assessment.

 

Asked if he believed the IRA's war was now over following its declarations and decommissioning last summer, he said: "The Irish government and British government are working on that assumption, based on the evidence we have."

As for the allegations of membership of the IRA Army Council, well Adams and the others named demanded to be arrested for this as it is a crime in both jurisdictions but they never were, much as for the Northern Bank Robbery for which no one has been charged. However, it does have some major correlations with a Bank Heist in October 1972 in Dublin which at that time was the biggest in the State.

 

 

It was the biggest bank robbery in the history of the state and everyone presumed the IRA did it. But those responsible for the heist in Dublin in October 1972 were eventually arrested and sentenced. They were two English brothers, Kenneth and Keith Littlejohn, who claimed they were working for British Intelligence. Whilst London later admitted that a senior MoD official had met Kenneth in regard to gathering intelligence on the IRA any illegal activity "had not been authorised". Absolutely.

As for the remarks associated with Mitchell Mc Louglin I have tried to google them but can find no record but even he should realise that Unionists and Nationalists are symbiotic, neither would exist without the other. At least they have found a way to work together.

 

Ireland and it's history, North and South, is a very complex issue; in fact Fianna Fail and Gael (the two major parties) have their origins in Sinn Fein and the fact is as I said before there are people who will use politics for personal gain, expediency and self interest.

 

We could debate this from now to doomsday and although I could contradict any unfounded remarks you wish to make I believe that it would be a futile exercise because you are unable to accept them. Even though I would concede acts of violence, greed and criminality were carried out by the IRA in the past in all it's manifestations, I get the impression that you would sanction certain ones that suit your political view. For example would you call the execution of British agents around Dublin in 1920, planned by Michael Collins and carried out by his nutting squad as justified. Freedom fighters or terrorists? The British government of the time would regard him as the latter, most Irish people as the former. Interesting question but it all depends on perspective.

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Come on parnell you can do better than that. You are cherry picking again and not up to date. You have obviously not read the 17th report from the Independent Monitoring Commission which I posted (nor the previous ten) that all stated that the IRA as an organisation was no longer involved in acts of criminality. Indeed any of the historical facts that I posted you choose to ignore or is that because you are incapable of dealing with the facts.

You are hilarious - do yourself a favour and climb back under the rock from whence you came...

 

Picture no. 1 is Robert McCartney (and his son) - murdered by those you support on 31 Jan 2005 - not 3 years :

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney

 

On February 16 the IRA issued a statement denying involvement in the murder and calling on the perpetrators to "take responsibility".[7]

 

On March 8 the IRA issued an unprecedented statement saying that four people were directly involved in the murder, that the IRA knew their identity, that two were IRA volunteers, and that the IRA had made an offer to McCartney's family to shoot the people directly involved in the murder.[8]

 

Picture no. 2 is Jean McConville - mother of 10

 

Jean McConville was a Belfast-born mother of 10 who was abducted from her home and killed by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) in or around Christmas of 1972.

 

The IRA did not admit their involvement until over 20 years later, when they passed information on the whereabouts of the body.[1]

After a prolonged search, co-ordinated by the Garda Síochána - during which the search area and time involved was expanded by the Gardaí - the search was abandoned, as no body could be located in the area specified by the IRA.

 

In August 2003, her body was accidentally found by members of the public while they were walking on Shelling Hill beach.

I read your report ... here's some choice excerpts:

 

 

 

3.15 Our conclusions for the six months 1 March to 31 August 2007 are:

 

 

There were 3 paramilitary murders, all by dissident republicans.

 

 

This is the largest number in a six month period for two years.

 

 

The total number of casualties from both shootings and assaults

 

 

for all groups has again fallen, from 29 to 16 – 45%. Compared

 

 

with the same six month period in 2006 it has fallen from 46 to 16

 

 

– 65%. The combined figure is by a considerable margin the

 

 

lowest we have ever recorded, as it was when we reported both

 

six and twelve months ago;

 

Republican Groups

 

 

Shooting casualties were down from 8 to 0 compared with the

 

 

preceding 6 month period, and down from 4 to 0 compared with

 

 

the same period in 2006;

 

 

31

 

 

Assault casualties were down by 60% from 5 to 2 compared with

 

 

the preceding 6 month period, and down by 78% from 9 to 2

 

compared with the same period in 2006;

So we should thank you and Sinn Fein for killing less people , knee-capping less people and generally being slightly less bastards than before???

 

HEY GUYS TOPCAT1 AND HIS BUDDIES HAVEN'T KILLED ANYONE IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS NOW - GIVE HIM A COOKIE!!!

 

I shudder to think that you call yourself an Irishman.

 

post-449-1200927167_thumb.jpg

 

post-449-1200927294.jpg

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Parnell, a bit like your so called Catholicism, your responses are very pick and mix, and you fail to acknowledge any of the points I have raised or even respond to them; you could be a Sun journalist. But unlike what you have done to others, you will not harangue me off this site, because I do not agree with your opinions or do not share your lifestyle choice.

 

It is ridiculously easy to refute that the IRA was responsible for Robert Mc Cartneys death, it is like saying the renegade policeman who stormed Sinn Fein's offices in Belfast killing three was sanctioned by the RUC. The killers were members of wider institutions but were on solo runs without the approval of those institutions. However, I will agree that the IRA, bears some responsibility in having people like these as part of their ranks. Do a little research on Mc Cartney and his friend Brendan Devine, it might open your eyes.

 

As for Jean McConville abduction and killing I believe that it was a despicable and criminal act. The IRA maintain she was working as an informer for the British army but to me that is immaterial. On the orders of Collins numerous informers were shot and killed without the judgement of a regularly constituted court. Was that a war crime as well then?

 

And in terms of killings lets bring another few into the equation:

 

 

Big Sam, Artie and me were drinking in the Lawnbrook Social Club. It was discussed that we go out and get a Taig … I remember Artie hitting him with a hatchet and telling him to keep quiet … I reached down and cut his throat with a butcher's knife

- Shankill Butcher Billy Moore

Killing is not just the domain of republicans or nationalists; in fact it happens everywhere

 

 

So we should thank you and Sinn Fein for killing less people , knee-capping less people and generally being slightly less bastards than before???

 

HEY GUYS TOPCAT1 AND HIS BUDDIES HAVEN'T KILLED ANYONE IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS NOW - GIVE HIM A COOKIE!!!

 

I shudder to think that you call yourself an Irishman.

As for the above remark about me, you should either prove it or withdraw it and I refute your allegation that I have been involved in any illegal activity, never mind killings or knee-cappings. Indeed this constitutes much more than a personal attack; it is a direct slur and a total lie. Unfortunately, it demonstrates the gutter level, you are willing to stoop to. As I have already stated, Sinn Fein is the largest nationalist party, with over 70% of the Catholic vote in Northen Ireland and I have the right to vote for that party without you inferring that I am a killer or a criminal.

 

Ironic that you demand sympathy for the redirecting of a fasching parade because it may insult but yet you deny my right to vote for who I wish in my own country. Double standards indeed but no doubt your next response will demonstrate that unequivocally as have all your previous ones; and I would rather be an Irishman with standards than one with none at all

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Parnell, a bit like your so called Catholicism

WHAT??? So , roundly beaten on all points related to corruption , murder and crime you're now having a go at my religious beliefs???

 

 

, your responses are very pick and mix, and you fail to acknowledge any of the points I have raised or even respond to them; you could be a Sun journalist. But unlike what you have done to others, you will not harangue me off this site, because I do not agree with your opinions or do not share your lifestyle choice.

See above for excerpts from your link ... uh what do you mean my lifestyle choice? Do you mean not supporting or engaging in violence and crime against innocent people? Do you mean a belief in democracy???

 

 

It is ridiculously easy to refute that the IRA was responsible for Robert Mc Cartneys death, it is like saying the renegade policeman who stormed Sinn Fein's offices in Belfast killing three was sanctioned by the RUC. The killers were members of wider institutions but were on solo runs without the approval of those institutions. However, I will agree that the IRA, bears some responsibility in having people like these as part of their ranks.

WHAT??? "wider institutions" ??? Once again :

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney

 

 

Robert McCartney (197131 January 2005) was the victim of a murder in Belfast, Northern Ireland, allegedly carried out by members of the Provisional Irish Republican Army. He was a father of two small children and was engaged to be married in June 2005 to his long-term partner, Bridgeen Hagans.

 

 

 

Ahhh... so he supported scumbag drug-dealing murderers too??? Good point.

 

 

As for Jean McConville abduction and killing I believe that it was a despicable and criminal act. The IRA maintain she was working as an informer for the British army but to me that is immaterial.

Wow ... do you have a split personality or something??? You did forget the bit however how the IRA denied their "involvement" in her murder for 20 years ...

 

You do seem to be having trouble locating Mitchell McLoughlin (Chairman of Sinn Fein)'s comments... no problem ... I have it right here for you.

 

 

On the orders of Collins numerous informers were shot and killed without the judgement of a regularly constituted court. Was that a war crime as well then?

Let me get this straight , you're reaching back 80 years to a time of civil war to find justification for your buddies' murders , racketeering and other crimes?

 

 

And in terms of killings lets bring another few into the equation:

Sorry don't know Billy Joe , Big Artie or MAry Lou either.

 

 

Killing is not just the domain of republicans or nationalists; in fact it happens everywhere

Great , they're all at it , so pay no attention to us??? You are mentally ill.

 

You have supported those you know are involved in murders , rapes , punishment style killings and beatings. You are a scumbag. I have absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of this site and wider society , regardless of country , agrees with that assessment.

 

Uh , Fianna Fail , Fianna Gael not larger than Sinn Fein?

 

Sinn Fein only the largest nationalist party within Northern Ireland (laughably a jurisdiction Sinn Fein refuses to recognise) since when... 2001 ???

 

Not only that but if you checked you would see that Sinn Fein regards all elections as invalid so it has absolutely no regard for your "right" to vote. Not only that but it doesnt even recognise "your own country".

 

The picture below is of Paul Quinn , 21 , lured from his home at Cullyhanna, Co. Armagh, to a farm near Castleblayney on October 20 2007, and was beaten with bars by a gang of up to 15 thugs to a slow death.

 

Thomas "Slab" Murphy approved the brutal killing of Paul Quinn in County Monaghan, an Ulster Unionist peer told the House of Lords under parliamentary privilege last night.

Slab Murphy is a well known IRA commander... his mug is the one on the right.

 

post-449-1200989180_thumb.jpg

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I'm not going to start hunting for statistics or defending my position, this is a very sensitive topic close to the heart of many.

 

It will be a long time (if ever) before I ever trust or believe anything said by Sinn Féin, the IRA, the provisional IRA or such similar group. They have lied too often and caused too much damage. Even if they are busy re-inventing themselves at the moment to gain political power, some things go too deep to be just forgotten.

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@ dreamer

 

You must mean this :

 

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sf...rs-1206678.html (registration required sorry)

 

 

THE Sinn Fein leadership lied when it denied the IRA shot dead postal worker, Frank Kerr, during the armed robbery of the Newry sorting office in November 1994.

 

It lied again when it said the IRA did not murder Detective Garda Jerry McCabe in June 1996.

 

They lied again in July 1999 when they said the IRA wasn't responsible for importing 122 pistols from Florida.

 

They lied again in August 2001 when three IRA men were arrested in Colombia.

 

When the IRA robbed the Northern Bank of stg£26m in December 2004, Gerry Adams said: "The IRA has said it wasn't involved. I believe that to be the case."

 

When a gang of IRA men, who had just returned from a Sinn Fein rally in Derry murdered Robert McCartney, Adams and other Sinn Fein figures vehemently insisted the IRA was not involved.

 

Similarly, when Joseph Rafferty was shot dead in April 2005 by a high-ranking IRA member who was a criminal and also worked for Sinn Fein, the party said republicans were not involved.

 

So, when one south Armagh resident said last week: "The best proof that the IRA killed Paul Quinn was when Gerry Adams denied it", he certainly had a track record to support his case.

The people believed locally to have been responsible for directing the murder of Paul Quinn, who had every major bone in his body broken in a prolonged beating with iron bars and pickaxe handles by nine men, are brothers, both long-serving IRA men who are heavily involved in fuel smuggling. They are also closely associated with Slab Murphy, the local IRA boss who holds sway over what is now a crime empire in the border area.

Lovely lovely lads...

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