Irish nationalism

139 posts in this topic

OK, so myself and the TTer who shall remain anonymous, ok it was Sin, were having a sherbet or two in Ned Kellys tonight and we met a charming couple from Cork.

 

All was well until i was asked by the wench what i thought of the Irish and i replied that all of the Britons, ( As in British Isles ), were basically the same people due to interbreeding etc

 

I said that our humour, view on life and general way we deport ourselves was the same.

 

Seems i was wrong, i was hit by a diatribe that basically said that England was an occupying country, potatoes got mentioned and that despite dilution by bastard English, that the country was still totally different.

 

I disagree totally with this, sure the Irish ARE different and have different views and ways but we are all basically the same aren't we?

 

Educate me.

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How old are you? Dude man, even on TT the Irish have issues. My family is Scotch-Irish and got out of that place 300 years ago. Course I am sure it didn't help being related to Cromwell and all, but jeez people can we forget the war(s)? :unsure:

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I disagree totally with this, sure the Irish ARE different and have different views and ways but we are all basically the same aren't we?

Yes, in the same way that the British are basically the same as the Germans and French. If you want to generalise and say we're basically the same, why stop there?

 

I think that wench was definitely nationalistic, but I'm sure I would have instinctively reacted a bit in the same direction (without the reference to English opression). Ok, we may genetically and culturally be very similar, but there's a difference there and it's important goddammit! Don't ask me what it actually is though ...

 

Were you actually surprised by her reaction? Do you think the Scottish and Welsh would like to be told they are basically the same as the English for example? Or the Canadians the same as the Americans?!

 

Genetics aside, I do see many differences between the Irish and British in terms of behaviour, mannerisms, speech, attitude etc. If you're questions wasn't just a drunken post, there's a few good books that go in the direction of describing each culture. So if you're going to lump us together, expect that kind of reaction. There are still many armchair nationalists in Ireland, but I think they are reducing in number.

 

Historic bit: although the British didn't steal the potatoes, they took the other Irish crops that would have helped in keeping the people alive during the famine.

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Of course they did export other foodstuffs out of the country making the effects of the potato blight much worse than they should of been.

 

Historic bit: although the British didn't steal the potatoes, they took the other Irish crops that would have helped in keeping the people alive during the famine.

Er, that's what I said, didn't I?

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I wonder how English people would react to being told they are the same as some other nationality. Would they feel slighted? Would they want it to be know that they weren't Irish or Dutch or even Scottish...but that they were English? I think nationality is quite a touchy subject. In fairness the English were not occupied for 800 years and heavily discouraged from speaking/learning their native language or following their own religion or many other things that I won't go into to. So how can someone know what it feels like if they are on the other side of the fence?

 

Yes people are basically the same. But nationalites are not. There are a many differences between Irish and the Scottish, the Welsh and the English. It's natural, it's cultural and it's healthy in my mind. If were all the same, the world would be a very boring place. But don't be surprised that someone from Cork was annoyed at you. As I say nationality is a touchy subject. Maybe the Irish are overly sensitive about nationality but we have our reasons.

 

God, I'm at it myself. I'm after heaping it all on the English! You were talking about Britons originally! My bad!

 

I think other thing is people are generally proud of their nationality and don't like to see it being moulded in or melded with that of another. Would that be fair?

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In fairness the English were not occupied for 800 years

True. It's only been 300 years so far.

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Any Lions tour you can think of , the English and Irish players get on the best.

 

Both of my parents love England and went there for summer work when in college. My sister lives there and is married to an Englishman.

 

Amongst the educated you'll find mostly nothing but a mutual appreciation and common ground.

 

Amongst the others you'll find chavs , "En-gerl-land" types and on the Irish side Fianna Fail supporters and a pathological and unfounded hatred of all things English.

 

As the guy said tho Cromwell , even with all the knowledge , education and mixing in the world , was/is very hard to swallow - tis rare that you meet an Englishman (like Gideon) who acknowledges and curses him in sympathy with his Irish comrade.

 

I think the English are fairer than the Irish , tbh ... Irish people find it easy to support England up to a point , they will claim in their defence fear of the "En-ger-land" crowd but I think there's something more to it.

 

Martin Corry personifies everything I love about the English - solid , hard , fair to a point , decent skin.

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Good Lord, dare I ask who are you talking about?

*cough* The Hannovarian Britisch.

 

You're the lucky ones. English nationalism and identity is just a muddled confusion.

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@ Sin

 

That's because the English realise just how ugly and inappropriate nationalism really is.

 

It's just as confused in Ireland I assure you , people who support the national sport sides passionately , cry into their beer when they , inevitably , underperform , swear that they "love Ireland" , then vote for a bunch of fucking crooks , people that they know are crooks.

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sure the Irish ARE different and have different views and ways but we are all basically the same aren't we?

fook off!

 

 

The British behaved shamefully towards the Irish people

settle the hell down and stop tarring everyone with the same brush!

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That's because the English realise just how ugly and inappropriate nationalism really is.

Er... :unsure: Can you go back in time and tell our footie hooligans that?

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then vote for a bunch of fucking crooks , people that they know are crooks.

The whole fuckin' World does this.

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Quite right Schotte,

 

the Scottish in Norn Ireland made the English look like well mannered choirboys. Do a bit of reading on the plantation of Ulster.

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@ Sin

 

That's because the English realise just how ugly and inappropriate nationalism really is.

 

It's just as confused in Ireland I assure you , people who support the national sport sides passionately , cry into their beer when they , inevitably , underperform , swear that they "love Ireland" , then vote for a bunch of fucking crooks , people that they know are crooks.

Okay, I'm not guilty of voting for the crooks! I object to that statement! Assuming of course that the Opposition are not crooks! Ruddy politicians are all crooks as someone else implied.

 

For my part, I get on very well with people from all over. That does not mean I want to be adopted by another nationality. I may come from a small nation but it still counts. :P

 

I think everyone gets worked up over sport and supports/crys for their own team. I've given up watching the football as our team is just diabolical. I prefer Rugby as at least we have (or had) a decent team there for awhile. Roll on the Six Nations! I'm afraid I won't be supporting anyone but the Irish :P

 

@Sin...I had to look those up on Wiki! You're making me work of a Sundee!

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Martin Corry personifies everything I love about the English - solid , hard , fair to a point , decent skin.

Another fallen Lion, he's just retired from internationals i believe.

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How old are you? Dude man, even on TT the Irish have issues. My family is Scotch-Irish and got out of that place 300 years ago. Course I am sure it didn't help being related to Cromwell and all, but jeez people can we forget the war(s)?

You are SO full of shit it is just hurts. First, related to Cromwell? Which one is that? Dave Cromwell from Abergavenny? Second, if your family left the UK 300 years ago, I think you pretty much lost any right to call yourself that. Third, scotch is a drink, you thick American fuck. Scots are people from Scotland.

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