Unfair heating costs and missed meter readings

[eof 36]

Hi,

 

Any advice would be appreciated on the following heating-costs problem.

 

I moved into an apartment on the 01.02 last year. I recently received the first settlement relating to Nebenkosten from my landlord. I was expecting a significant refund as I rarely use the central heating, and my warm water usage is well below the previous year (I have read the meters and done my calculations).

 

Instead, to my surprise the bill was looking for money from me. The bill was only pertaining to the first 4 months of heating, and was asking for €166 more money from me. My calculations indicate I should have been getting approximately 200euro in refunds. So in total, I seem set to lose 300-400euro for heating I never used.

 

The extra cost from an usually high heating usage of 583.96euro on the statement, coming from a supposed 62Einh units of heating usage for the months 02.01.2007-31.05.2007.

 

The problem is, I know I never used this heat, and I have done personal meter readings to back that opinion up. I have a copy of the metering readings (signed by the landlord and outgoing tenant) for when I moved in, and I have present readings. I figure my heating usage for the period was about <15 units (for the entire past 11.5 months its 50).

 

The enclosed statement from the heating company said due to the change in tenant mid-year it was apportioning costs via 9b of the Heizkostenverordnung. It listed 96.8 units as some sort of unexplained total figure (presumably the total units estimated for the year), and apportioned 62.7 of those units to me for the four applicable months.

 

Anyways I just phoned my landlord, who spoke mainly German to me, and to be honest I didn't understand completely what he said. But from what I understand, the heating company tried to do a meter-reading at the of end of May and failed because I was not there to let them in. And because they don't have end of year readings, they won't use the readings when I moved in in their calculations, and thus (presumably via some sort of formula) decided to ask me for 62.7.

 

Now to be honest, it's quite possible I missed some sort of general notice about meter reading if it was in the apartment noticeboard or on the front door as my German is still quite bad (despite many hours of lessons). But I definitely would not have missed any notice specifically put on my door, or addressed personally to me in my letter box. So I can only conclude, that while it's very possible I missed a general notice about a meter-reading, the company certainly didn't go to much effort to contact me personally at any point.

 

Anyways, does anyone know, what I can/should do from here to avoid having to pay 300-400 euro for heating that I have not used.

 

I don't mind paying extra now, as long as I get a refund back at the next meter reading. I also am willing to accept some sort of penalty if the company went to a reasonable effort to contact me and I messed up by not being there. , but I don't think I should have to pay 300-400 euros for heating I haven't used just because I genuinely didn't know about a meter reading. The total cost of heating for the previous 12 months was €821.35, so paying 300-400euros additional penalty for a 4 month period for missing a meter reading would be extremely high, even taking into account that February and March could be possibly be considered relatively reasonably heat-intensive.

 

So any advice?

 

I agreed with my landlord that I would write him a letter explaining how I don't understand / accept that I used 62.7 units of heat, and he would in turn write a (further) letter from this to the heating company, but to be honest he didn't sound too optimistic that they would change how much they are looking for. My landlord considers his role as just passing on whatever costs the heating company looks for to me.

 

To summarise what pieces of information the company have (or potentially could be given).

- The meter readings from the end of last year (May 31st 2006)

- The date of the changeover between previous tenant and me.

- The meter readings at the changeover date (Feb 1st).

 

What they could be legitimately (or perhaps not so legitimately) missing is:

- The meter readings at the end of the billing year (May 31st 2007).

 

The thing is I would imagine it must be possible to prove from the interim reading and the first reading that the previous tenant used a certain amount of heat, and thus any heat after that can be considered mine. This would solves the problem for me, because once the meter is read next time, my real usage would become apparent, and I'd get refunded the money. But I'm worried about how the heating costs are calibrated on a yearly basis, and how this affects my logic.

 

Sooner or later the meter will need to be read, and that will put a cap on the total heat used collectively by both me and the previous tenant. But I cannot prove what the meter said on may 31st which was the end of the billing-year. All I can supply is a signed copy by the previous tenant of the meter-readings when he left on Jan 31st.

 

So what can/should I do? What should I be prepared to accept for a presumed sin of [genuinely] not knowing about the meter reading in May? How do I go about minimizing the financial damage, and avoid having to pay for heat I haven't used?

 

And in general, who's responsible for fairly billing me? The landlord or the heating company? i.e. if the heating company is hypothethically acting the bollox by being unreasonable, is that necessarily my problem?

 

i.e. does the landlord have the particular responsibility for fairly distributing costs between myself and the previous tenant, or can he just go with what the heating company says?

 

Thanks!

[maddigliana 10]

The notices aren't put on your door - they are usually put up in hallways, near mailboxes or in visible areas.

 

It would probably be good to carry a dictionary with you in future. Not understanding the language isn't really an excuse (in this case).

 

Is your apartment part of a large house? Here's how it works (usually):

 

The whole house (usually consisting of several parties) uses a certain amount of heating. The meters are read in order to determine how much of the heating each party has used. In the case that one of more parties isn't/aren't available for meter readings, the remaining heating costs are divided amongst them. It's the fairest way of doing things, and an incentive for people who use little heating to be present for meter readings.

 

Your landlord has nothing to do with it. It's between you and the heating company.

[UrbanAngel 445]

I agree to contact the heating company directly. It's very kind of the landlord to offer to act as the go-between but it'd maybe just confuse things and things might take longer.

[eof 36]

maddigliana, thanks for the reponse, it's part of a large apartment building with maybe 100+ apartments.

 

btw I don't just ignore notices, which is why I am surprised I missed this one, but I guess I must have. These things happen.

 

When I had my heating checked before in Heidelberg, they did put a notice on my door with a date and a time, but I guess these things vary.

 

Btw it's not penny picking to think that being asked to pay 583euro for 4 months heating, when the entire 12 months of the previous year for the previous tenant came to 821euro, and when you know you've done calculations that indicate you are using heating at about 40% the rate he (and his family) were.

[eof 36]

The main reason I haven't contacted the heating company is that the statement is made out to my landlord (who in turn sent me a photo copy of part of it i.e. the one pertaining to my own four months worthy). I wasn't too sure if they would even deal with me if I wasn't him. But I guess I'll give it a shot.

 

I mean it wasn't even communicated to me that I missed a reading or anything [7 months ago]. It wasn't on the statement. I only found out about this for the first time early this evening when I rang the landlord.

[eof 36]

Ok, I've done some calculations, and it seems that the company has already attributed roughly the correct amount of units used to the prior tenant, so they must have used the interim meter readings for this.

 

I guess they just attributed a very large amount of heat to me as there were no meter readings for my portion, treating me as if I had hugely over-used.

 

So I guess what I need to do is just get confirmation that when they read the meter next-time, and the real usage emerges, that this year's overpayment gets taken into account. I would imagine this will not be a problem, but I will contact them and find out. If so, problem solved.

[eof 36]

btw Thanks for the advice maddigliana and UrbanAngel. Maybe I could repay it someday with heating units or something :)

[Kay 4,137]

That's an original way of offering to keep someone warm. :D

[eof 36]

lol that wasn't quite my intented offer, but heck :)

[sir realist 10]

I dont understand this heating system here all i know is we got a bill for close on five hundred euro ( for one year. WTF.)over the cost of our nebenkosten for our heaters that we never turned on once and we were there to let the bugger in. i just dont get it

[Mik Dickinson 443]

Ok guys.My experience.No one has a contract with the company for reckoning out your central heating.That is between your landlord and the company.Your landlord is however obligated to have the meters read when someone moves out.He has not done this to save himself costs.

What have you on your radiators.Are the measuring devices digital or do you have soemthing with 2 fluid phials on it with different colours?

If the radiator is facing or on a window then you will not have to use the central heating at all.These fluids evaporate with heat and if the sun gets at em it evaporates.( Personal experience with this.)

If the reading company comes round and you are not there after being advised then you have to pay for a separate visit.They do however have to inform you about a second visitation.You get 2 chances for the reading.

German Law stipulates that if you pay the bill first and then contest it you have already admitted liability.So either pay or contest it.Do not pay and then bitch about it you have no chance.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

For good measure, put the amount of the bill on a separate interest-gaining account before you contest the bill. Proof of good faith, and you don't have to scramble to find the funds if the court says that you are obliged to cough up after all.

 

Get in touch with the meter-reading company and ask for the last two times they read the meters in your apartment. Compare those dates with the date your predecessor moved out.

[(807) Recordings 53]

Hopefully someone has some advice as I been searching for an answer on this for quite some time now.

 

Please let me explain:

 

So first year in my flat here in Dresden I get a heating charge of 300 euros over. I pay about 150 extra in warm rent in 60sq/m flat.

Next year I decide to play it safer and not leave the rads on when I go to work. Now here is the extra interesting part that makes me think I am getting shafted:

 

I work from 13:00 to 2300 monday to friday.

When I get home and turn on the heat it rarely heats up as its on the night system.

In essence I should be using barely any heat. Of course weekends when we are home I turn it on but even the rooms are isolated with doors from each other.

Last year I got a bill for 1700 euros. Besides the fact I almost died on the spot I am totally baffled on what the heck this is...???

Honestly this is just too high for the income I make and I believe completely out of line.

 

I do have another problem with the flat on an extreme mold issue. Honestly I am not sure what to do or where to go. Neither is my girlfriend who is German, outside of the consumer protection place.

 

 

Advice would greatly be appreciated here.

 

Thanks in advance.

[swimmer 3,707]

Well, it could just be wrong of course. Bear in mind that heating includes water heating of course. You also need to understand your contract and its model for apportionind heating costs. Not all of an apartment heating bill may relate to one's personal consumption. A significant % may be apportioned. This is because there is are communal aspects to heating an apartment block - everyone gets warmth from a common boiler etc, upper flats get heat from below, the top one loses it through the roof etc. (Mine is something like 70% of my reading, 30% apportioned).

 

Therefore, strip out the water and that shared cost, and the gain from severely restricting room heating is often (far) less than we presume. It's only a small fraction of the bill.

 

And, if you do not heat a typical German apartment then yes, of course you may well get mould in extreme winter cold. At least keep it very well ventilated.

[eurobabs 644]

Assuming you are talking about the SWM bill and not your yearly "extra" nebenkosten from your landlord - I had something similar the first year I got my bill. The hausmeister was kind enough to show me where the meters were, which was mine and which numbers to write on the little card and send in. Well, being the very very old man that he is, he only showed me the 1 meter in our flat (for gas I think) and totally forgot to mention there are actually 2 meters (also one in the kellar) - So, SWM upon not having the 2nd number, "guessed" what it would be based on the "building" usage. We have a 1 room flat, the only one in the building. So we got a bill of close to 1000€. We simply needed to write down the actual number from the 2nd meter (for the electric) - take it in and in the end, actually got something like 16 euro back. So double check the numbers that are written on the invoice against the numbers on the meters. Perhaps this is not your issue this time, but just a suggestion in case :)

[fraufruit 42,667]

Recordings won't have SWM (Stadtwerk Muenchen) in Dresden.

[LeonG 14,855]

This seems like the appropriate thread for heating costs. I just got a bill from my landlady for 475€. Last year I only paid an extra 50. I have a meter on each radiator in my apartment and they were all changed to digital a year ago. When I remarked to her that they hadn't read the meters, she said that they do it electronically. Comparing my usage from the old meters in 2009 to the new meters in 2010, it looks like my usage for the kitchen is 2.3 times what it was in 2009, living room is 3 times what it was, bathroom 2.7 and bedroom only 1.8. I have a hard time believing this but that is what the meters say. Is it possible that the cold winter of 2010 compared to the mild winter of 2009 would be the cause? I have a very hard time believing that I am heating that much more.

[Wheel 404]

Digital meters have no power supply apart from a tiny watch battery so I'm sure she's wrong about electronic readings. If no-one's been round your bill must be an estimate. Ask to see the original bill from the energy company, it will explain in detail how your usage is worked out and whether it's an estimate or not. I got hit with a €1400 adjustment because the meters weren't read for two years, so get them read if you can.

 

Edit: some newer digital meters can be read via Bluetooth, either by a central reader or handheld unit.

[PandaMunich 16,904]

They can do a wireless reading (Ablesung per Funk) of your heating meters if they are of the new electronic kind:

 

 

You can read up on it here.

[LeonG 14,855]

She actually gave me a bill and it has the meter readings. Looking at the meters, they flash 3 numbers, one after the other. One of them I think is the number of the meter, one seems to be last years reading, fitting with the numbers I have on my bill and the 3rd I think is the running meter for this year. This is the company we have the meters from: http://www.techem.de/Deutsch/Fachwissen_Dialog/Haeufige_Fragen/Heizkostenverteiler/index.phtml

 

She's an old lady, she asked me if I really heated that much and she said her heating bill is always the same.

 

Actually, looking at the bill for 2009, I see that the units on the counters can't have been the same. They seem to have used the meter reading multiplied by different factors to get it into units. Looking at the units from the old bill instead of the meter readings to compare, it seems that my heating usage is similar in both years. However, I have now noticed that the unit price is up twofold. On the 2009 bill, it is 4.4 cents per unit and now it is 9.9. Is that possible?