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Bavaria's non-smoker protection law now passed

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Then ask the guys in Kilians, they are having big problems with the neighbours as it is.

Isn't it up to the neighborhood to approve the establishment in the first place? Can neighbors actually do anything but complain? What are the rules behind this?

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so a pub/club located down a side street will have to be careful about the noise levels outside, late at night, when smokers pop out for a quick cigarette.

but will pubs & clubs in non-residential areas (ie Kunstparkost) really have such a problem?

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so a pub/club located down a side street will have to be careful about the noise levels outside, late at night, when smokers pop out for a quick cigarette.

but will pubs & clubs in non-residential areas (ie Kunstparkost) really have such a problem?

Possibly not but those places are in the minority.

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And always has been. ZERO tolerance doesn't stop noise though. People have always been noisy on leaving pubs - that's nature - and pubs have always had to deal with it.

So making it even harder for pubs to deal with is the obvious solution there then is it??

 

 

so a pub/club located down a side street will have to be careful about the noise levels outside, late at night, when smokers pop out for a quick cigarette.

but will pubs & clubs in non-residential areas (ie Kunstparkost) really have such a problem?

The ones in non-residential areas will be OK...But most bars and pubs happen to be in residential areas.

 

Restaurants will be fine too, because people generally eat earlier, so if they're outside having a smoke at 9pm, then they won't have a problem...

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Someone asked about Oktoberfest.. well according to their website they are thinking about raising the prices (again) for beer to cover the costs of the extra personnel they will now have to hire.

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Someone asked about Oktoberfest.. well according to their website they are thinking about raising the prices (again) for beer to cover the costs of the extra personnel they will now have to hire.

What extra personnel will they have to hire? :unsure:

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Someone asked about Oktoberfest.. well according to their website they are thinking about raising the prices (again) for beer to cover the costs of the extra personnel they will now have to hire.

well the breweries will be happy then, they love raising their prices.

 

so how will the smoking ban effect the small bar-owner in a residential area; will his trade suffer so much? he will certainly have a bit more work to keep his outside smokers quiet while they pop out for late night ciggies.

 

my smoking friends in the UK (as I posted previously) had previously been against the ban, but now they've just accepted it and a few of them are actually glad cuz they smoke less.

when we went clubbing in York a few weeks (on the main road in a residential area) they got little arm bands to wear so they could go out the club to smoke outside in a little fenced-off area and come back in again (without paying £15 entry fee again grr!) is this a possible Oktoberfest solution?

in the pubs they'd just nipped out now and then together for a ciggy,

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You are right to bring this up. The noise levels outside factor will play a much larger roll in Munich than it has in Italy, Ireland, or bigger cities in Munich. And you know what will happen? The bouncers will tell you to smoke quietly, go back inside, or leave. Bars without bouncers will probably be forced to hire some to control the noise or face Abmahnungen. Eventually, people will lose interest in fighting with bouncers, standing in the cold or rain or snow, and realize that smoking shouldn't really be that important a factor in their lives.

 

Banning smoking in restaurants is simply the first step towards the greater good. It's a law forcing smokers to realize that smoking is bad for your health and can be harmful to others around you, a movement that the country must embrace at some point. If you take a look at the states now, very few people smoke. It definitely wasn't that way 10 years ago. I just can't grasp why you guys are so passionate about clinging onto your cancer sticks. I understand that it's an addiction, but haven't you ever had the urge to quit? Stop thinking about the bar owners for a second, don't you think that this, in the long run, will be better for you?

MoiLV is making sense here. Think "big picture" people. Sure, the law is going to suck for some small bar owners who can't have their patrons make noise outside, but it's all for the greater good. Those bars will have to adapt or close down. Sure, it sucks for them, but it's a worthwhile sacrifice for the population at large.

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I smoke myself and I can't wait for the first of January. I was living in Ireland in 2004 when it became the first country in the world to ban smoking in public spaces and it has been a success.

Tobacco smoke is toxic and I find it disturbing that people try to put profit margins ahead of the health of workers. Here is an example of how the health of bar workers has improved since the ban in Ireland.

 

The Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) launched a massive PR campaign against the ban in the months preceeding it's introduction trying to scare people into believing that the ban would ultimately kill any social interactions (i.e. your chances of getting laid) with images of isolated lonely guys sitting in an empty pub.

 

They also claimed that the ban would kill off the bar trade in a sudden drop in sales. They are still trying to get people to swallow this one.

 

The reality of the ban is that workers and customers alike are breathing clean, non-toxic air. Your chances of "social interactions" have increased with the unexpected arrival of "smirting". The pub sales apocalypse never arrived, instead a steady decline, which started before the introduction of the ban largely due to ridiculous drinks prices, has continued.

 

The one and only downside to the ban is now obvious potency of the poisonous Guinness farts.

 

Sláinte! And roll on the new year!

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Someone asked about Oktoberfest.. well according to their website they are thinking about raising the prices (again) for beer to cover the costs of the extra personnel they will now have to hire.

Sounds fair enough to me. I guess they will have to hire extra security staff to police people going in and out to smoke. Seems reasonable to me as long as it's not much more than 1 Euro per Maß.

 

I would expect the price in bars to increase as well if they have to hire bouncers to control the noise outside. Such is life though, everything comes with a price.

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MoiLV is making sense here. Think "big picture" people. Sure, the law is going to suck for some small bar owners who can't have their patrons make noise outside, but it's all for the greater good. Those bars will have to adapt or close down. Sure, it sucks for them, but it's a worthwhile sacrifice for the population at large.

Can you suggest how a pub in a residential area can "adapt"?

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SiM - I imagine that more personnel will be needed at the entrances/exits of the tents for those going out to smoke every 5 minutes. Can't find what their strategy is yet on their website though.

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I am somewhat in favour of the smoking ban - liberty ends where it infringes the liberty of others. Second-hand smoke, while overrated as a health hazard, is at least bothersome to non-smokers in a public place such as a bar or a restaurant. Therefore, restrictions or even a ban appear reasonable enough.

 

What I don't like about the ban is the direction we are going here generally: there are enough health nazis among politicians and bureaucrats in Berlin and Brussels who would love to ban lots of other substances as well, for the sake of Volksgesundheit and bossing people around.

 

I do not like to be ordered what is good for me and what is not by an almighty state. How much fun is life when you can't do something silly or dangerous once in a while?

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Isn't it up to the neighborhood to approve the establishment in the first place? Can neighbors actually do anything but complain? What are the rules behind this?

Publicans are responsible for any noise related to their establishment, be it music from inside or guests outside. Worst case they can lose their licence if there are too many complaints.

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a little fenced-off area and come back in again, is this a possible Oktoberfest solution?

I think this is what they will have to do, only accessible from inside the tent, can't be that hard to organise, there's always a sort of dead area around the back of the tents.

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exactly...and there's always 4 or 5 seedy security men just standing around scratching their heads.

will give them something to do!

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