Transrapid secures financing, building to go ahead

117 posts in this topic

Train-Tram is a tried and tested and successful concept, just not used in Bavaria. You have rail based vehicles that can function as trams on streets or as trains on grade separated rails. The other way round of doing it is to have stations with platforms at two gauges, one for halting trams, one for halting trains.

One of the Munich passenger groups has more detail on its website, ProBahn?

There’s a scheme for the Würmtal towns to the SW but for the minute I’ll stick with the northside of town. The idea is to create an east-west link that could start around Dachau, connect with the S1 in the Moosach area, then run across north Munich (frankfurter Ring) as a tram, rejin the north ring railway to cross the Isar and come out at Unterföhring / Ismaning to link to the S8. It’s a good idea but all an idea at the moment.

The current argument is about Munich – Airport journeys for which Train-Tram isn’t relevant. The choice is: Transrapid or Express S-Bahn.

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tranny-train

sounds a bit like the Stuttgart trams which look like trains, and go underground except when they're being trams. good idea.

as for transrapid, i'm all for it as it'd be fookin' cool.

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as for transrapid, i'm all for it as it'd be fookin' cool.

You obviously don't pay taxes or need any sort of state, city or municipal services on which that money would be much better spent. So can we count on you to buy the €25 one-way tickets every single time you go to and from the airport as well as the regular MVV fare to get between your home and the HBf?

woof.

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i pay shed loads of taxes, receive no services for education or health and so at least my taxes would be going on something i think is cool.

as for the cost, compared to a taxi (€55 each way, let's say 30mins) or driving (30mins, done it in 17mins but v early in the morning, parking for weekend of €60 at a decent car park ie number 22) then €50 return for 10mins to Hbf sounds fine, esp as have a wochenkarte anyway and can get a tram straight to end of my street. other option is sbahn which at €17.60 return is cheap, but takes forever.

build it! build it! build it!

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i pay shed loads of taxes, receive no services for education or health

Well, what you do "receive" is a nice low crime rate and clean city... offshoots of the things you say you get nothing from. The point being, a similiar service can be done for by far less money, leaving money for other projects, or just to be injected back into the economy for further growth.

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yeah but everyone else who pays less taxes get a clean city and low crime too. money left over won't be injected back into the economy as the best way to do that is to lower the tax rate which won't happen. next best way is to build things, like transrapid (which will be done by Siemens who are based in Munich and so will pay taxes on the profit they earn from the project).

no other service is similar in that s-bahn express will take at least twice as long to get to the airport.

hmmm, Stoiber's crack.

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no other service is similar in that s-bahn express will take at least twice as long to get to the airport.

Express S-Bahn taking 2x as long?? 2x as long as what? The ESB would take 30min or less to get to the Airport, the TR would take 20

thats nowhere near a 2x increase. Add to that the TR only has 2 stops (Hbf and airport) and the ESB 4 which gives it better connections

for those that live in the outlieing areas. The ESB would be part of the MVG network so the standard ticket prices apply, the TR would cost

25+ eur each way and only get you there 10min faster. So in the end your paying an xtra 18 or so Eur (Each way) to get to your dest. 10min faster, on top

of the price for the MVG ticket you need to get from your house to Hbf.

This does not warrent spending billions of Eur for a project nobody actually wants or needs. Its a waste of money plain and simple...

In other news the TR project will most likly be going to a referendum in Feb 08, at which time the project will prob. be canceled anyway.. (As per TZ)

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Express S-Bahn taking 2x as long?? 2x as long as what? The ESB would take 30min to get to the Airport, the TR would take 20

thats nowhere near a 2x increase.

sorry i got that wrong - it'll take three times as long (see post #1 - TR will take 10mins).

even more reason to build it and use it.

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1) I said similiar... twice as long sounds like a lot until you realize it is only 10 minutes longer for an order of magnitude less money

2) The upkeep will continue to cost more for ever... so your taxes will go up

3) How often would you really use this? In all reality it will become just another one of those really expensive services you never get to use that you complained about.

If you have such a burning desire to use these government services you are paying tax dollars for... just intentionally break your leg and save us all the money

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3) How often would you really use this? In all reality it will become just another one of those really expensive services you never get to use that you complained about.

well, i tend to fly at least three times a month on business, plus once every couple of months for pleasure - each time i tend to drive and pay the parking. as this is quicker and cheaper i guess i'll use it a lot.

it'll also reduce my carbon footprint ;)

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it'll also reduce my carbon footprint

Doubtful. do you know how much electricity these things use?

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But, just like the tax money, less electricity would be required for an Express S-bahn... more waste, and higher taxes going into the future.

You seem to have a problem understanding the concept of finite resources.

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1. Who said its wind generated? How can you prove that?

2. By your own words your traveling for business, and let me guess who pays for your Airport ride anyway.. Your company

So unless you own your own company, your not paying for it, while the rest of us (Not traveling on Business) would have to

pay, and 25 Eur each way is way to much. (On top of the MVV ticket needed to reach Hbf).

3. Other much needed projects not relating to the TR/ESB have been put on hold due to the TR project. There are atleast 3 other large scale

projectes on hold, ALL of which would be a much better use of money. All 3 projects could also be paid for/funded with the $ used for the single TR project.

The TR project would be for Munich residents and Tourist, while the other 3 projects would greatly benefit all residents of Bavaria, not just those in Munich.

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But, just like the tax money, less electricity would be required for an Express S-bahn... more waste, and higher taxes going into the future.

You seem to have a problem understanding the concept of finite resources.

i have no problem with economics at all.

electricity is an infinite resource when sourced from the right places.

as for the financing of the transrapid. tax money, plus high ticket prices would work nicely as it provides an economic resource for munich (lower journey times to the city), and essentially a tax on consumption which would punish those who use it who are likely to be the more well off. works for me.

right, off to a meeting to raise a few billion € to buy a chunk of a dax company, will be back later.

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i have no problem with economics at all.

electricity is an infinite resource when sourced from the right places.

Now of course, the key question: is it sourced from the right places? You can't get around the fact that if your transrapid is using massive amounts electricity, even if it is 'green', it still means something else which would have used that electricity now must use conventionally generated electricity.

There's no way of getting around that. Yes, you do have difficulty with economics: if electricity were truely an infinite resource (or, even close to it) then why do we have to pay for it?

Sign me up when we get cold-fusion.

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There's no way the maglev would do the trip in 10 minutes; 15 is more realistic. The touted time savings are lost on the vast majority of people who will have to transfer. A quarter to a third of S8 passengers board and depart at Ostbahnhof, and more than twice as many use Marienplatz than the HBf. There'll be a considerable walkway necessary to drag luggage through and a follow-on S-Bahn trip. Anyone wishing to go to Ostbahnhof from the airport would arrive at the desired destination just as fast with an ExprS-Bahn.

No one's mentioned that Transrapid is a private monopoly; all parts and service must come from them. Their product is single-use and can neither be shared with current infrastructure nor repurposed when it turns out that it's losing too much money annually and is finally shut down. ICE tracks can carry cargo trains and there's a lot of cheap land ideal for manufacturing near an ever-expanding airport.

woof.

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It's not only taxpayer's money that's being wasted on this white elephant; Deutsche Bahn are also throwing away cash that could be used elsewhere on the network for the benefit of a greater number of people. I was in Mittenwald recently and they've just boarded up their booking office, despite it being a busy station with many tourists. Now you have to either hope your ticket is available in the machine or queue up at the travel agency across the road, and hope they haven't gone home by the time you get there, or it's not closed for lunch, or it's not a Sunday or their Ruhetag, or the person in front of you isn't booking a round-the-world cruise. Booking offices may be less sexy than magnet trains, but they're a hell of a lot more useful, and a lot cheaper as well. Today it's booking offices being closed down, next it will be train lines and stations.

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