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Group of people attacked at Mügeln Stadtfest

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Topic split: Group of people attacked at Mügeln Stadtfest

 

 

You still can send them flowers. They are still there. If you actually every manage to find find Bin laden, you can send him flowers too..

I would rather send you and the rest of the propagandists to them. Maybe you can sing Kumbaya with them, or more likely you will find yourself on the receiving end of an Enthauptung.

 

 

What you've just stated is called a logical fallacy. However. Terroristic incidents worldwide have increased.

Good luck trying to prove that is entirely because of the US. Surely even a propagandist such as you must admit there are many other factors at play- after all the Tamil Tigers, the PKK and many other terrorist groups don't target the US or Americans. There have been a lot of terrorist targets for a long time- perhaps you familiarize yourself with the rantings of the terrorists- they call for Germany's destruction as well. Perhaps you think Germany will be spared because it once tried to exterminate the world's Jewish population.

 

 

Well done, You're war on terror is as successful as your war on drugs.

I personally favor treating nonviolent drug users rather than prosecuting them unless they have committed a derivative crime. I don't think that you care about drug use in the US, though.

 

 

No, I actually said exactly he opposite. Invading a country to stop a non-centralized, non-localized organisation is tactical and strategical idiocy

.

Well, Al-Qaeda was using Afganistan as a base. Maybe you would have been willing to sip tea with them and the terrorist Taliban, but clearer heads in your own government knew better.

 

 

Bonds!! Sold to Foreigners!! As well as Dollar Reserves. But why believ me, listen to your own counytrymen

Oh my gosh, no American ever bought any US Treasurys and no American ever saved a dime at any time! Oh, mighty and omniscient Ollie, what are we going to do?

 

 

Hell, and I could post you several hundred more US based information sources.

Sure, our press is not as docile and deferential to its government as the German press, which gins up readership by continually criticizing the US and exaggerating quite a bit about that country.

 

 

CIA Figures:

 

External debt:

 

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th...r/2079rank.html

 

1 United States $ 10,040,000,000,000 30 June 2006 est

4 Germany $ 3,904,000,000,000 30 June 2006

 

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resourc..._publicdebt.htm

Anyway, on to the debt figures cited above. Unless you have not heard because you are too busy imbibing and regurgitating anti-US propaganda, the US economy is much larger than that of Germany, more than four times larger in dollar terms and more than five times larger in PPP terms, considered more accurate by economists. That means, according to the figures you cite, Germany's debt-to-GDP ratio is approximately 120%, while that of the US is little over 70%. I have already explained to you why you are wrong about even those US federal debt levels, but since that does not suit your propaganda purposes, you ignore it. Listen very carefully: a larger economy can service is debts more easily than a smaller economy, all other things being equal.

 

Of course, you try to wish this away by simply ignoring GDP as a statistical tool:

 

 

The fact that you are too lazy and too ignorant to even keep yourself informed about your own country is worrying.

That's great if you could trust the GDP figures, or if they were relevant to this discussion.

The US GDP is to 70% based on Domestic Consumption. Which in turn is based on the housing bubble and other cheap debt.

The amount of US GDP from domestic consumption has been about two-thirds for quite some time, certainly far longer than 1999, when home prices began to surge in some US metropolitan areas. If you have any proof that the reported US GDP figures are false, bring that forward, propagandist. Should anything be based on expensive debt? Also, nice to see that you discoe

Domestic consumption is really, really bad! It's not real! Let's use Fove Year Plans instead- no pesky GDP figures that might make the Fatherland look a bit less than superior!

 

 

That you have not managed to understand that, after the last 3-6 months of news articles about the subprime bubble etc. Which has now well spread into other sectors.

Ah yes, the sky is falling on America! Propagandists and terrorists rejoice! Your hearts will be warmed by the hysteria, but you will be disappointed if you ever realize that these types of things happen in every economic cycle. Of course, your mighty German economy has absolutely no debt worries, right? Can't have a property bubble if property prices don't rise in nominal terms and they fall in real terms.

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The Dollar is tanking for on very simple reason. The Fed stopped publishing the M3 Monetary Supply value. It's essentially an indicator of how much cash they are printing. Why would they do that?

There are quite a few reasons for dollar weakness, and yes, inflation is a concern; however, the best thing to do is to further reduce the federal budget deficit. No, there is no overnight solution, but it can be done gradually. Of course, the eurozone M3 growth is pretty significant as well, as you will see below.

 

 

So you don't realize that they are adding +- 10% of extra dollars into the system each year. In addition to that, the CPI Index (inflation) does not include Energy, Housing or basic Foods. In other words, it is a farce value.

Here is an interesting stat from the ECB's monthly bulletin from July 2007:

 

 

http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/mobu/mb200707en.pdf

The monetary analysis confirms the prevailing risks to price stability at medium to longer horizons. The underlying rate of monetary expansion remains strong, in a context of already ample liquidity. The ongoing strength of monetary expansion is reflected in the continued rapid growth of M3, which increased at an annual rate of 10.7% in May, as well as the still high level of credit growth.

So the eurozone, with a larger percentage than the US of GDP as government spending, can handle 10% growth in M3, but the US can't?

 

Of course, if you actually knew anything about US statistical recordkeeping, you would know that you can use the market-based PCE if you want to see a figure that includes enery and food prices. Data al la carte, omniscient one. As for housing, unless it has recently changed, what is included in the core CPI for housing is rents, not the cost of owner-occupied housing. That is something that in theory should be corrected, but I should also point out that if the US housing market is falling apart because of subprime loans, an index including the prices of now-cheaper owner-occupied housing being sold in a certain time series might now show deflation in housing, rather than inflation, which kind of puts the kibbosh on your inflation fears since housing is the largest expense most people have. Of course, if you use monthly mortgage payments as the gauge of inflation in housing, quite a few people have no payment at all, plus you would have to find some way to account for the portion of the mortagage interest which is tax-deductible, which is obviously very hard to do.

 

Of course, you are omniscient and obviously know what I know or don't know. What are you a wannabe Schäuble? You're no Ludwig Erhard, that's for sure.

 

 

So, if inflation is far higher than actually published, that explains why we had a DOW of over 1400. In fact, even counting in official inflation, the Dow needs to be on 1430 just to not have lost Money. In other words, it's crashed.

When was the last time the Dow was at 1400 or 1430 in nominal terms? Back in the 1980s. in real terms, I am not sure, but it was a long time ago, probably 1990 or so. The Dow closed at 13,236 yesterday, no sorry, 13.236 so Ollie doesn't get confused and joyful thinking there had been a crash without him noticing.

 

 

Another sign of inflation is as said, the strength of the Dollar, as well as Interest on Bonds (which are now barely being sold btw), is that the buying power goes down. I.e. you get less for your dollar. because there are more dollars.

And what is the latest yield on the benchmark 10-year US government bond? 4.62%. A real catastrophe. Oh, mighty economic seer, can you interpret that rate for me? Is it high, low, or what? Is it indicative of a government unable to sell its Treasurys? Of course, propagandists are probably still frustrated that it is US government bond yields that are the risk-free rate.

Thanks for the economics lesson on inflation. Speaking of inflation, perhaps you care to comment on the inflation that accompanied the introduction of the euro, you know, the one everyone but the ECB admits happened? What did it do to European propagandists' buying power? What about your annual tax increases? What do they do to buying power? Oh, but who cares about buying power, as domestic consumption is BAD, BAD, BAD.

 

 

Add to that the little subtle facts that the entire financial system is probably over leveraged by 25-1, and it's not difficult to do the maths.

Care to show how its is "overleveraged by 25-1"? Some hedge funds are other financial institutions are even more leveraged than 25-1 in certain positions. Are you now Peer Steinbruck? Everyone. listen up, you will now be forced into money market accounts paying 2% before high taxes on interest and inflation so that Ollie the Omniscient and Superior feels safe from any margin calls! And consumption is so bad for you that it is time to raise the VAT to the EU statutory max of 25%. What is wrong with those evil Americans? Why don't they want to increase inflation by taxing consumption oh so heavily?

 

 

I mean, where do you think Money comes from?? How is it created? How can the worlds assets go up by xxx % in a decade? Pure maths at the end of the day.

Money? I thought it came from the counterfeiters in the former DDR.

 

 

Hitler had 32% when he was voted in. Only 32%. Bush had more.

Yes, US democracy has proven itself far more robust than German democracy. Of course, in western Germany you have done pretty well since Nazi German genocide was ended, what with your US-inspired constitution, US military protection through the NATO alliance, basically being babysat by the US so that your fearful neighbors could be reassured that they would not again be pillaged by Germans carrying an ideology that said that Aryan Germans were a master race and needed Lebensraum. Now about that oh-so-dictatorial Stasi-infested German regime in the former DDR...

BTW, I have always wondered why ANY Germans believed that a man who did not have the blond hair and blue eyes he was describing as the markers of a master race, should be the leader of this master race of people. Can you tell me why, omniscient propagandist?

 

 

Hitler consolidated power by changing the law to suit him. Just like Bush.

Well, Bush did not pass laws exempting him from paying taxes or being prosecuted for tax evasion. Nor did he pass laws exempting him from Nazi race laws. That's just for starters.

 

Wonderful, you extremist, just wonderful. Bush is Hitler in your mind. Well, what are you going to say when he leaves office as constitutionally required on January 20,2009? Then you will probably begin your propaganda assualt on the next US President, regardless of who it is.

 

 

And the germans, pushed into war, happily complied.

Call it US hating. Even if it is, America deserves it in the moment. Because you're only a few steps away from what you seem to hate the most about us.

In your dreams, propagandist. The best part about your anti-American tirades is that they are now archived for future reference. When you and the rest of the anti-American propagandists are eventually proven wrong, it will be possible to prove what bile you spat in 2007.

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I would rather send you and the rest of the propagandists to them. M

aybe you can sing Kumbaya with them, or more likely you will find yourself on

the receiving end of an Enthauptung.

Resorting to insults because you have no rational argument?

 

 

Good luck trying to prove that is entirely because of the US.

Surely even a propagandist such as you must admit there are many other factors

at play- after all the Tamil Tigers, the PKK and many other terrorist groups

don't target the US or Americans. There have been a lot of terrorist targets

for a long time- perhaps you familiarize yourself with the rantings of the terrorists-

they call for Germany's destruction as well. Perhaps you think Germany

will be spared because it once tried to exterminate the world's Jewish population.

You used the argument to underline your stance. I just pointed out the glaringly obvious.

 

I also see you are playing the historical jew trump card. Weak Rhetoric.

 

 

Well, Al-Qaeda was using Afganistan as a base.

As well as getting funds from Saudi Arabia and various other sources. Is the Taleban eradicated? No. Was Bin Laden caught? Nope. has Al Queda been weakened? We don't know, but it's not looking like it.

 

 

Maybe you would have been willing to

sip tea with them and the terrorist Taliban,

but clearer heads in your own government knew better.

Can't stay factual? Can't make an actual point rather than just hurling derogative remarks?

 

 

Sure, our press is not as docile and deferential to its government as the German press,

which gins up readership by continually criticizing the US and exaggerating quite a bit about that country.

You didn't address the point the press is making. Once again, you revert to insults.

 

 

Ah yes, the sky is falling on America! Propagandists and terrorists rejoice!

Your hearts will be warmed by the hysteria, but you will be disappointed if you

ever realize that these types of things happen in every economic cycle. Of course,

your mighty German economy has absolutely no debt worries, right? Can't have a

property bubble if property prices don't rise in nominal terms and they fall in real terms.

Stating a fact has little to do with rejoicing. Everyone will suffer because of the situation. Once again, you seem unable to be able to separate criticism from a deliberate insult or attack.

 

Germany can't have a debt bubble because it doesn't have liar and ninja loans.

 

As to the economic debt cycle. With the changes in Interest rates deregulatio as well as the last years Yen carry trade, there is no historical precedent. How can you talk of Business cycles when the current system exists less than a century, if you are precise and include changes such as the 70ies move from the Gold Standard to a Fiat currency, new deratives such as CDO's valued market-to-market and put into AAA tranches even though they are actually subprime loans.

 

These leveraged at times 25:1 bear no relation to the underlying economy, or even GDP. Otherwise how do you explain a stagnation of wages in real terms?

How do you think can real estate asset values rise multiple times inflation within such a short span? Due to excess liquidity, cheap lending terms, financial buggery and predatory lending.

 

You also cite models that are mere theories, not established fact. There are many counter theories, such as the Black Swan theory by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, or the Minsky Bubble Theory my Minsky.

 

All you are doing is regurgitating official mantra. You bring no proper counter argument, are obviously ill informed yet accuse me of being a propogandist. Yet all of your arguments just repeat the FOX news outlook without any actual factual counter argument. You are coming at me with high school text book history that has little to do with actual history (which I concede is the same pretty much everywhere)

 

You also seem to disregard the fact that the GDP et al reflect the Bubble. Once the bubble is gone, so is the rest. That's why it's a bubble, doh!

Check out how many new jobs over the past 10 years have been in the building or supporting sector, or in the service industry.

 

Or for a change, READ

 

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Comme...eckenstein.aspx

 

You asked for links and references, i gave them to you.

 

If all you can retort with are insults, then this discussion is over.

 

You can always tell when an opinion is conditioned rather than arrived at. You can't defend the positon rationally.

 

ollie

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Ollie dont encourage him, can you open another thread with the title "Why is the US good/bad?" please.

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Germany can't have a debt bubble because it doesn't have liar and ninja loans.

ollie

Bwahahahahahaaha!!! You don't know jack shit about the current situation do you?

 

Banks in Germany Wobble

Just last week, German banks reassured the world that they weren't overly exposed to the American sub-prime crisis. The weekend bailout of Sachsen LB, though, brings Germany's Achilles' heel into the spotlight.

As recently as last week, German banks sought to convince investors that they were not overly exposed to the suddenly wobbly US mortgage market. But as the weekend bailout of Sachsen LB demonstrates -- coming just two weeks after a similar bailout of IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG -- the reassurance wasn't completely accurate.

 

More here: Banks in Germany Wobble

 

German Banks Succumb to Temptation

Just what did a small, state-owned bank in Saxony think it was doing by investing billions in the risky American subprime market? German commentators on Monday say managers were looking for an easy buck at the taxpayers' expense.

The German bank Sachsen LB is in trouble. On Friday, it announced that a group of publicly owned banks was bailing it out (more...) to the tune of €17.3 billion ($23.3 billion) after it proved unable to provide the credit it had pledged. The guilty party turned out to be an affiliate in Ireland called Ormond Quay. The affiliate, known in the finance world as a conduit, did not appear on Sachsen LB's balance sheet and specialized in issuing short-term debts backed up by securities. Ormond Quay, it turned out, was heavily exposed on the US sub-prime mortgage market and nervous investors had turned away from the credits it offered. The result? Serious liquidity problems.

 

And here: German Banks Succumb to Temptation

 

Postbank gets busted too. Not to mention that WestLB is also in deep shit.

 

 

Deutsche Postbank swept into subprime mire

Sat 11 Aug 2007, 13:01 GMT

[-] Text [+] FRANKFURT (Reuters) - Deutsche Postbank has taken onto its own books 600 million euros in exposure to two investment vehicles run by Germany's IKB, Postbank said on Saturday.

A Postbank spokesman confirmed a report to this effect by Germany's Der Spiegel magazine as turmoil from the U.S. mortgage market crisis continued to spread.

He said all the securities that Postbank had taken onto its balance sheet this week were rated "AA" or "AAA".

Unlisted German state bank WestLB has 1.25 billion euros in overall exposure to the U.S. subprime mortgage sector, it said on Saturday, giving a figure for the first time

 

Deutsche Postbank swept into subprime mire

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Germany does not have bubble.

 

The German banks are being hit because they have been exposed to US debt. Debt that was rated AAA by American Rating agencies Moodies, Standard and Poor et al.

 

You seem to miscomprehend the term 'Bubble' and possible cause and effect.

 

ollie

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Ollie, I have defended my positions and have exposed yours as inaccurate. Your own responses were weaker than I thought and most of them are hardly worthy of rebuttal. I laugh when I see that Geman financial institutions, among others, were dumb enough to buy loans (admittedly packaged with non-subprime loans) that they would not have originated themselves. I am myself a great critic of liar and NINJA loans, but since you don't know me you wouldn't know that. Part of what you say was a housing bubble in the US was due to tax law changes in 1997 that justified somewhat of a revaluation of housing values. Was US monetary policy too loose for several years? Yes, but it was not the first time and will not be the last. Rather than debunk you further, I will just say for now that we shall see what happens in the long run.

 

People who liken Bush to Hitler should not complain when they are called out on that false analogy. If that makes you feel bad, tough.

 

EDIT: I have never suggested that Germany is experiencing any sort of bubble. If that was not clear to you, now it should be.

 

EDIT. I am also not enamored of most uses of leverage, which traditional mortgages being a notable exception.

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Now you can blame the bad and evil Americans forcing good and innocent German banks to go into the subprime markets. LMAO!!!

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FFS I give up, what was the subject of this thread BTW I seem to have forgotten with the amount of crap being spouted in the last couple of posts.

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Germany does not have bubble.

 

The German banks are being hit because they have been exposed to US debt. Debt that was rated AAA by American Rating agencies Moodies, Standard and Poor et al.

 

You seem to miscomprehend the term 'Bubble' and possible cause and effect.

 

ollie

I know more than a witless Arbeitslose dork (that's you) about this. I work for a hedge fund. Try reading something more than just few magazines and internet sites to understand the economies and how they work.

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Don't worry, the US gets blamed for everything. The people that bought these mortagages should have done a better due diligence, but why admit a mistake when you can blame Americans, who have subsidzed the German economy with military protection for decades.

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Now you can blame the bad and evil Americans forcing good and innocent German banks to go into the subprime markets. LMAO!!!

There was no point made of blame. I did not say 'evil' or 'innocent', nor did I imply it. I did not say the German banks were not stupid to do this. It was a statement of what and why. Don't attribute meanings and connotations to other people statements.

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I know more than a witless Arbeitslose dork (that's you) about this. I work for a hedge fund. Try reading something more than just few magazines and internet sites to understand the economies and how they work.

First off, I don't believe you work for a hegde fund in any analytical or executive capacity, if you indeed for one at all.

 

You have made base assumptions about my background and current status that you have no idea of knowing. You neither know what I studied, or what I do professionally. I am incidentally not unemployed.

 

And even if you did work for a hedge fund, that doesn't mean you have a clue. So far you have displayed nothing but economical illiteracy.

 

See below for clever hegde fund managers:

 

http://hf-implode.com/

 

ollie

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First off, I don't believe you work for a hegde fund in any analytical or executive capacity, if you indeed for one at all.

 

ollie

LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOO!!! Ask any fellow TTer from Frankfurt. Just because you lie about yourself does not mean other people are liars. Dork.

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See below for clever hegde fund managers:

 

http://hf-implode.com/

 

ollie

LOLOL! Now THAT'S a typical German reaction. Throw mud on hedge fundies cause they earn money than you? How jealous of you!!! Don't turn green from jealousy!!!

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Just because you lie about yourself does not mean other people are liars. Dork.

Attacking the person instead of the argument.

 

Nice. But baseless.

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@ollie, I'd say your arguments have already been torn to shreds so much that there isn't much left to attack.

 

EDIT: there are, incidentally, many subprime borrowers who have converted to traditional loans after a certain period of time. If done properly, it can be possible for some people to become homeowners that would never have had the chance in a more restrictive system.

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