Has "fat is beautiful" gone too far?

428 posts in this topic

Which statement? What offended you especially? ( You come across as easily offended, anyway). That you cannot accept child abuse exists? Plus the role of the food industry, advertising and the polluting of our food by processed food, sugar etc?

Do you have kids? 
 

I stand by my views- children worldwide are looking at an unhealthy future. Check out my link earlier to the medical report re Crete and to the WHO , the Guardian etc and , equally importantly , observe around you. 

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19 minutes ago, john g. said:

So, a summary so far: some people feel personally offended by my post/s - fair enough. Not my intention.

Are there problems with obesity with children on Crete? Yes.

See my two links previously...one a medical report by medical peers and the other a Guardian article. I wrote neither of them. I observe. And I feel sorry for the kids. It is a societal problem made worse by the food industry and by changes in the lifestyle over the decades here away from one of the healthiest diets in the world to run-of-the-mill fast food, sugary shit --like elsewhere.

If you can´t accept that, I can´t help.I also can´t help it if I observe some  here getting on their motorbikes to drive just 3 metres to the mini-market to pick up some milk and then ride back home. Or the doctor, yes..doctor! who gets in her car, drives 50 metres at most to the rubbish container, winds down her car window, chucks the rubbish into the container , clöses the window and then drives home again. 

 

Sedentary life styles.

 

Why are you starting this up again, don't you think enough damage has been done today over this?

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I wanted clarity on my position, Tap. I stand by my horror at what is happening re the youngsters here.

 

Then I also replied to she-who-will-be-obeyed after I had tried to be conciliatory.

 

If none of you on here can understand the real damage done to children’s health, then so be it.

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Just now, Tap said:

 

Why are you starting this up again, don't you think enough damage has been done today over this?

 

Sorry, Tap, but, no, he doesn't.  He has been allowed to offend under the guise of "harmless old hippy john" for so long that the pushback that what he has said is not accepted by the community is just unbelievable to him. There's nothing to do but continually tell him the same things until he understands or wanders off. He may be a paying advertiser on TT (or once was, I don't know), but no one pays enough to go unchallenged.

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Don’t follow obediently your flying monkey SP, Alex, re that nonsense that being a paying advertiser on TT has anything to do with my opinions.

Surely the opposite! Wouldn’t it be damaging business-wise if I offended potential customers? How do you see that as an intelligent person? 

No, in my heart, I am the peace- loving hippy type but I am tired of my own naivety / everybody’s darling sometimes and just want to express myself as I see things the way they are.

 

And I will not be bullied.
And anyone who knows Nicole and me in real life knows that child and animal abuse are topics close to our hearts. I feel no shame about that.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

He has been allowed to offend under the guise of 

 

Perpetual victim and grievance grifter AlexTr in action.    

 

You can blame the food industry, advertising, sedentary lifestyles, underactive thyroids, but under no circumstances should anyone ever be held accountable for maintaining their weight at a healthy level.  

 

Here is another statement of the bleeding obvious:    one of the most damaging and sometimes irresponsible things a parent with non-adult children can do is drop dead.    Adults who do not maintain their health and their weight put their kids at risk.   

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The fake outrage on here is terrible, this evening. 

 

On 8/3/2008, 12:26:25, worm said:

back on the fat topic, check out this 15 year old in friday's Sun: 33 stone!!!

I for one am proud to be paying for her inevitable life spent using up huge amounts of money on the NHS.

post-2617-1217759169.jpg

 

This lass was 15 years old and weighed 209 Kg. That's not normal! 

 

On 5/23/2020, 9:40:48, john g. said:

Have never seen this thread before but just wondering if the young lass here is still alive. Or with diabetes. Or has got her weight down to be able to live her life more happily.
I will probably get hammered on here for my comment. Fair enough.

There is no way I would accept she was truly happy when this picture was taken - unless she was brainwashed by her mum.
IF she was like this because of a genetic condition - fair enough.

 

IF NOT- why? Child cruelty. Sorry if you feel offended by my statement.

Everyone is talking about corona ( quite rightly ) but what about the other killers?

 

 

Can someone please explain just what John has said that is so upsetting? 

 

18 hours ago, Alteregouc said:

 Tip-toeing around issues and condemning people that speak frankly is not always what is needed. There are justifications for everything that is wrong with the world, maybe we shouldn't always harp on those because in our effort to be 'kind' we are just telling people that it is okay to stay at rock bottom and sometimes IT IS NOT.

 

Amen! 

 

12 hours ago, Tap said:

Why are you starting this up again, don't you think enough damage has been done today over this?

 

It's a chat forum. If you are so easily offended by these mild discussions then maybe you should think about staying on the cat videos thread.

 

Seriously, the Toytown Overreaction Team have really gone into overdrive with this one. 

 

 

12 hours ago, AlexTr said:

@john g. Nope, your statement was just offensive. No digging out of it now.

 

12 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Sorry, Tap, but, no, he doesn't.  He has been allowed to offend under the guise of "harmless old hippy john" for so long that the pushback that what he has said is not accepted by the community is just unbelievable to him. There's nothing to do but continually tell him the same things until he understands or wanders off. He may be a paying advertiser on TT (or once was, I don't know), but no one pays enough to go unchallenged.

 

Alex, you are a misandrist and a shit stirrer extraordinaire. 

 

I really can't believe that you brought John's advertising into this. 

 

12 hours ago, john g. said:

Don’t follow obediently your flying monkey SP, Alex, re that nonsense that being a paying advertiser on TT has anything to do with my opinions.

Surely the opposite! Wouldn’t it be damaging business-wise if I offended potential customers?

No, in my heart, I am the peace- loving hippy type but I am tired of my own naivety / everybody’s darling sometimes and just want to express myself as I see things the way they are.

 

And I will not be bullied.
And anyone who knows Nicole and me in real life knows that child and animal abuse are topics close to our hearts. I feel no shame about that.

 

 

 

John, mate, you don't have to justify yourself to these dingbats because you haven't done anything wrong. 

 

These guys think because they screech the loudest that they are right. 

 

They are not. 

 

11 hours ago, balticus said:

Perpetual victim and grievance grifter AlexTr in action.      

 

A horribler online entity, you will not meet! 

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1 hour ago, AlexTr said:

 

Sorry, Tap, but, no, he doesn't.  He has been allowed to offend under the guise of "harmless old hippy john" for so long that the pushback that what he has said is not accepted by the community is just unbelievable to him. There's nothing to do but continually tell him the same things until he understands or wanders off. He may be a paying advertiser on TT (or once was, I don't know), but no one pays enough to go unchallenged.

“ Allowed to offend.” Good evening, fascist/ generally meant authoritarian she-you-who-must-be obeyed .  Whom have I offended? Those who don’t accept reality?

” Not accepted by the community.”
Everyone has the same opinion? 
 

And please don’t be so dumb as to bring SP’s pathetic “ he should have been banned on TT but hasn’t because he’s a paying advertiser in TT.”

That Is SO dumm wie Brot.

By the way, SP mentioned  the other week  , Alex, you despise everything I stand for.

a) What do you despise? What do I stand for?

B) Why would he say that? Inside information?

c) You saw the post, I am sure , but didn’t refute it. I wonder why not!

😂


 

 

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5 minutes ago, john g. said:

“ Allowed to offend.” Good evening, fascist/ generally meant authoritarian she-you-who-must-be obeyed .  Whom have I offended? Those who don’t accept reality?

” Not accepted by the community.”
Everyone has the same opinion? 

 

Mate, don't even entertain her. She's a man hater. Have you seen the shit that she posts across the forum? 

 

Batshit crazy! 

 

On 5/20/2020, 6:39:53, AlexTr said:

If you want to upset a woman, laugh in her face. If you want to devastate a man, let him know you're laughing behind his back.

 

9 hours ago, AlexTr said:

306f2bc935e88ccb3a722e53b2b5d56a.jpg

 

Like I say, she's a misandrist. 

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1 hour ago, AlexTr said:

 

Sorry, Tap, but, no, he doesn't.  He has been allowed to offend under the guise of "harmless old hippy john" for so long that the pushback that what he has said is not accepted by the community is just unbelievable to him. There's nothing to do but continually tell him the same things until he understands or wanders off. He may be a paying advertiser on TT (or once was, I don't know), but no one pays enough to go unchallenged.

I don't agree with John but you are using this debate for your own personal vendetta.

 

The big difference here is that John fights his own battles.

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I would prefer “ when a person’s character is not clear to you, look at their friends and enemies and see how they see through the bullshit.”

 

But that’s just me being unusually “ heavy “, to use the argot of some of my favourite musicians!😂

 

Anyway, decide on your own character and stick with the game plan. It’s YOUR life - let nobody else force you. Why allow it?

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Thank you, lisa, for your insights! I couldn’t agree more with you!

If i may finish my evening with a desire! I would actually LOVE an indecent CHEESEBURGER right now. Proper junk. Can’t get it in our village on Crete- even when they open up tomorrow.

Couldn’t get it in Germany if I were allowed to return tomorrow. Why not? The bread is too good!🙏🏻

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I don't recall anyone saying that a child being morbidly obese is OK, neither the 15-year-old nor Lisa's dangerously overweight nephew.  And whatever the reasons are, both those people have unhealthy body weights, and I don't think anyone was arguing that.  No one said once it was "OK" for people to be dangerously fat.  Just as no one said it was OK to be dangerously thin, alcoholic, violent or self-harming.

 

What I object to is the tone in which the dialogue is conducted.  What I see first is scorn and mocking, with a quick and dirty swipe of "concern" for their health.  Alert readers will note that I, me, personally and quite consistently have an issue with people calling out others on their own personal struggles.  You don't think mocking someone for being an alcoholic is going to give them the confidence and self-worth to quit, do you?  You don't think sucking your teeth at an overweight adolescent is going to make them suddenly put down the pizza, do you?  What bothers me is that the bodies of fat people, similarly to the bodies of women, are apparently everyone's business.  Yeah, I'm sensitive to that.

 

IF it was someone's business to interfere in the health of others, the dialogue really needs to be carried out differently, IMHO.  But in the case of overweight adults I feel it's usually just more lookism that people never grew out of from their schoolyard days.  What I think is also NOT healthy is comparing oneself to others, IMO that includes "that person is fatter than me, which makes me better than them," which I believe is the secret, possibly subconscious reason that so many people are concerned with the weight of perfect strangers. 

 

And again, before we get on this "oh but it concerns me because their health"--in all the time I've lived in Germany and worked with Germans who went on something bafflingly called a "Kur" or were Krankgeschrieben for long amounts of time due to stress, guess what?  Not a single one of them was overweight.  People are stressed to the point of almost negative productivity in the workplace and the brink of nervous breakdown.  Of course, I don't know why, but for me it seems not impossible that trying very hard--and failing--to be perfect in all ways takes a dramatic toll on people's health.  Yes, you might be thin, but every 10 months or so you have to go rest up from the weight of the pressure of being great at your job, having twelve million social obligations, being in a different Verein for each day of the week and doing whatever you can at whatever cost not to come under the scrutiny of others, which I feel in Germany is a huge threat to public health.

 

One more note about "elective" fatties: to me it's no surprise that obesity should be skyrocketing in the poorest areas.  In the US both food and tobacco have long been the poor man's comfort, with the overwhelming majority of overweight people and smokers being in the lowest income brackets.  Cheap pleasures that anyone can afford, for those who can't afford to go skiing or horseback riding and the like.  In many cases parents working multiple jobs to just barely scrape by, with neither the time nor energy to take their kids hiking and camping, it's a huge problem.  So I withhold my scathing judgment of those too, because unhealthy lifestyles are just as often as anything else, a class issue.  Yes, I agree that a pre-adolescent child that weighs as much as an NFL linebacker should be actually taken away from their parents by the state, I really do.  That's a pretty extreme case, though.  For all the other, more, uh, "moderately" fat kids, that again is a behavior learned from parents.  Yes, the parents shouldn't overfeed their children, and I have seen overweight parents with skinny kids, but not often.  And usually they were poorer.

 

Again, none of this is to say that being dangerously overweight is "OK"--but the mocking, disparaging tone surrounding the issue pisses me off.  I don't like it when people are quick to judge others like that.  Handle your own shit first and then, if you really want to do nutrition outreach in your neighborhood to help out the poor fat kids, then do so.  But sitting back smug and shaking your head and tutting isn't doing shit for them.  It makes you feel better about yourself, maybe, but it doesn't do a damn thing for THEM.  And that's what it's all about, right?  Their health, right?  Spending half your damn life feeding and rehabilitating cats and dogs when there are human lives at stake apparently.  How about starting a football team and crudités buffet for the poor fat kids instead?

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Just to add another dimension to the discussion...being a skinny child attracts just as much stigma as being overweight. The ‘just eat more’ message is just as effective as ‘just eat less’. I was severely underweight as a child and suffered much bullying until my mid twenties. From kids at school through to work colleagues.  My mother was highly criticized by all of her family and doctors. My metabolism changed naturally and now I’m a reasonably normal weight.

 

My daughter has the same issue.  Normal birth weight though her ongoing centile weight has always been way under minimum. My family and every doctor treated me like a negligent mother. Endless dieticians expected diaries of food intake.  One in the UK even threatened to report me to social services. Finally, our local elderly Hausarzt here took one look at my daughter and pronounced her just fine.  His own grandchild was the same type of mixed race...just petite and just fine.  
 

Best for people to just not make assumptions and judgements about health and well-being issues that they know little or nothing about. 

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6 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

I don't recall anyone saying that a child being morbidly obese is OK, neither the 15-year-old nor Lisa's dangerously overweight nephew.  And whatever the reasons are, both those people have unhealthy body weights, and I don't think anyone was arguing that.  No one said once it was "OK" for people to be dangerously fat.  Just as no one said it was OK to be dangerously thin, alcoholic, violent or self-harming.

 

What I object to is the tone in which the dialogue is conducted.  What I see first is scorn and mocking, with a quick and dirty swipe of "concern" for their health.  Alert readers will note that I, me, personally and quite consistently have an issue with people calling out others on their own personal struggles.  You don't think mocking someone for being an alcoholic is going to give them the confidence and self-worth to quit, do you?  You don't think sucking your teeth at an overweight adolescent is going to make them suddenly put down the pizza, do you?  What bothers me is that the bodies of fat people, similarly to the bodies of women, are apparently everyone's business.  Yeah, I'm sensitive to that.

 

IF it was someone's business to interfere in the health of others, the dialogue really needs to be carried out differently, IMHO.  But in the case of overweight adults I feel it's usually just more lookism that people never grew out of from their schoolyard days.  What I think is also NOT healthy is comparing oneself to others, IMO that includes "that person is fatter than me, which makes me better than them," which I believe is the secret, possibly subconscious reason that so many people are concerned with the weight of perfect strangers. 

 

And again, before we get on this "oh but it concerns me because their health"--in all the time I've lived in Germany and worked with Germans who went on something bafflingly called a "Kur" or were Krankgeschrieben for long amounts of time due to stress, guess what?  Not a single one of them was overweight.  People are stressed to the point of almost negative productivity in the workplace and the brink of nervous breakdown.  Of course, I don't know why, but for me it seems not impossible that trying very hard--and failing--to be perfect in all ways takes a dramatic toll on people's health.  Yes, you might be thin, but every 10 months or so you have to go rest up from the weight of the pressure of being great at your job, having twelve million social obligations, being in a different Verein for each day of the week and doing whatever you can at whatever cost not to come under the scrutiny of others, which I feel in Germany is a huge threat to public health.

 

One more note about "elective" fatties: to me it's no surprise that obesity should be skyrocketing in the poorest areas.  In the US both food and tobacco have long been the poor man's comfort, with the overwhelming majority of overweight people and smokers being in the lowest income brackets.  Cheap pleasures that anyone can afford, for those who can't afford to go skiing or horseback riding and the like.  In many cases parents working multiple jobs to just barely scrape by, with neither the time nor energy to take their kids hiking and camping, it's a huge problem.  So I withhold my scathing judgment of those too, because unhealthy lifestyles are just as often as anything else, a class issue.  Yes, I agree that a pre-adolescent child that weighs as much as an NFL linebacker should be actually taken away from their parents by the state, I really do.  That's a pretty extreme case, though.  For all the other, more, uh, "moderately" fat kids, that again is a behavior learned from parents.  Yes, the parents shouldn't overfeed their children, and I have seen overweight parents with skinny kids, but not often.  And usually they were poorer.

 

Again, none of this is to say that being dangerously overweight is "OK"--but the mocking, disparaging tone surrounding the issue pisses me off.  I don't like it when people are quick to judge others like that.  Handle your own shit first and then, if you really want to do nutrition outreach in your neighborhood to help out the poor fat kids, then do so.  But sitting back smug and shaking your head and tutting isn't doing shit for them.  It makes you feel better about yourself, maybe, but it doesn't do a damn thing for THEM.  And that's what it's all about, right?  Their health, right?  Spending half your damn life feeding and rehabilitating cats and dogs when there are human lives at stake apparently.  How about starting a football team and crudités buffet for the poor fat kids instead?

 

Your tone is also very aggressive and demeaning. Why don't you start and write your criticism in a more respectful way. If attacked like this nobody will change their opinion. You will achieve nothing. 

 

Cats and dogs deserve to be loved and rescued as well. They are living beings.

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On 10/07/2007, 13:20:09, Lorelei said:

There was a TV programme on the other night, which made me wonder if the "fat is beautiful" phenomenon has gone too far.

 

It showed a 5-year-old girl who was so overweight that she couldn't walk: she was normal height for her age but so heavy that her legs weren't strong enough to carry her. So she relied on a wheelchair to get around. Her mother was shown laughingly wheeling her to the family car and cheerfully heaving her into the back seat. The girl was in tears from the effort of having to walk the couple of feet from the chair to the car door. The mother, who claimed that her daughter had a "genetic disorder", was shown merrily feeding her daughter a plate of white bread sandwiches and potato chips for breakfast, and, later, beaming with pleasure as she watched her daughter scoff an entire family size pizza at one sitting. A photograph of the girl as a baby showed that she had once looked perfectly normal.

 

The girl had apparently stopped breathing at one point, and had been taken to hospital, where the doctors told her mother that her breathing problems were caused by her weight. (No kidding.) Not that the mother showed any sign of being bothered by this.

 

Since the girl was still in the custody of the mother, it looked as if the hospital hadn't reported the mother to the social services or to the police. No explanation as to why not.

 

The predicament of this girl and the recent outcry about an overweight boy in the UK being taken into care because he was being fed to death by his mother, makes me wonder if the "fat and proud" attitude among adults is actually contributing to a tolerance for what looks like child abuse.

 

Forgive me for quoting "moi" but this thread wasn't started with the intention of shaming or laughing at fat people, whether adults or children, but to discuss whether the phenomenon of adults choosing to take a "fat is beautiful" or "fat and proud" attitude was having an adverse impact on children. I don't perceive john.g's comment as shaming or laughing at fat adults/children and am puzzled by some of the reactions.

 

I think dessa's points about diet often being related to class is very valid. It also brought to mind the issue of many Americans living in "food deserts" where healthy food is impossible to come by and I don't think that point occurred to me when I started the thread. It has been a long time since I started the thread and I can't remember whether the mother in the TV programme I saw gave the impression of being in financial straights but if she had I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been as critical of her merry ways.

 

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49 minutes ago, Namu said:

 

Your tone is also very aggressive and demeaning. Why don't you start and write your criticism in a more respectful way. If attacked like this nobody will change their opinion. You will achieve nothing. 

 

Who the fuck was was talking to you?

 

Better?

 

:) 

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1 hour ago, Lorelei said:

Forgive me for quoting "moi" but this thread wasn't started with the intention of shaming or laughing at fat people, whether adults or children, but to discuss whether the phenomenon of adults choosing to take a "fat is beautiful" or "fat and proud" attitude was having an adverse impact on children. I don't perceive john.g's comment as shaming or laughing at fat adults/children and am puzzled by some of the reactions.

 

I think dessa's points about diet often being related to class is very valid. It also brought to mind the issue of many Americans living in "food deserts" where healthy food is impossible to come by and I don't think that point occurred to me when I started the thread. It has been a long time since I started the thread and I can't remember whether the mother in the TV programme I saw gave the impression of being in financial straights but if she had I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been as critical of her merry ways.

 

Sure, I've seen one too where the mother of a small boy did not realize she was doing anything wrong.  She picked him up to school with a wheelchair although he didn't need one because she said he gets tired easily.  Well, of course he does, he weighs about twice as much as he should for his age.  Although he started off walking, mom was the one encouraging him to have a seat in the chair before he thought of it himself.  Coming home, she offered him strawberries.  He said he wanted cake.  There had been a birthday at school and he had brought a small piece of cake home.  She said of course she can't forbid him having cake when the other kids do.  I agree with that.  So he eats his cake and she offers him strawberries again.  By now it's almost dinner time but he gets not only strawberries but a bowl full of milk and cereal with strawberries on top.  And then dinner, a grown man portion.  And he's 5.  So she can't figure out why he's fat.  She thinks he has some kind of disorder and is getting him tested for everything under the sun.  Even when the filmmakers show her all these things, she refuses to see it.  So in this case, it's absolutely the parents fault.  In this case, the parent needed to be educated.

 

However, you can't always just point at the parents when the kids are fat.  Sometimes it's more complicated than that.  Like my sis who raised her kids healthy and still ended up with a fat one.  So it's not always the parents either.  Looking at my family, I think there's definitely a genetic component.

 

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