Has "fat is beautiful" gone too far?

428 posts in this topic

I wrote here last night HOW I stumbled upon it- on the “ who’s online and reading what” thingy. Often times there are lurkers etc browsing topics. 
I noticed someone was reading this particular thread and clicked onto it.

No conspiracy theories, please.

Nicole and I are both concerned about this issue here as we notice it more and more. BECAUSE we are older, the issue of health is becoming more and more relevant.  I am not talking about ADULTS in my posts. It is the kids who need guidance. Not from me, though.

Without going into personal details, Nicole was severely abused over years as a child. 

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9 minutes ago, john g. said:

I did NOT go hunting for an old thread. I had no idea it existed. I often start threads if a topic interests me.

 

When you brough this topic up a couple of weeks ago, after some negative posts, you made the comment that you were sorry you had mentioned it at all. Unfortunately, it has been deleted now, but if you felt like that 2 weeks ago, why did you bring it up again in the same tone, knowing how people feel about it. It seems like a deliberate action to me, to start a flame war on an otherwise quiet Saturday evening.

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6 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

I have a lazy thyroid too and I've been on medication for it for 20 years but it didn't help me any with the weight.  Gave me a bit more energy, that's pretty much it.  Eating less definitely helps with losing weight but some research have found that at least some fat people have messed up brain enzymes that don't tell them when they are full so they are basically hungry all the time. 

 

I am fat and there are plenty of fat people in my family.  Some have managed to lose weight temporarily but it always comes back.  My dad once told me that in order to stay thin, he would have to be hungry all the time.  Well, he didn't want to be.  And neither do I.  I try to keep it under control, sometimes I have good days, sometimes not.

 

Two of my siblings have weight issues and two don't.  My sister is one that doesn't and she also raised her kids with a very healthy diet.  Guess what, one of them still ended up with a weight issue.  It's just not that simple. 

 

 

Absolutely,  LeonG, I don't think it's (thyroid) THE solution. It just was for me. There are so many other reasons that factor in. It's just decidedly nasty to address the topic without a broader view of all factors.

 

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12 minutes ago, Tap said:

 

When you brough this topic up a couple of weeks ago, after some negative posts, you made the comment that you were sorry you had mentioned it at all. Unfortunately, it has been deleted now, but if you felt like that 2 weeks ago, why did you bring it up again in the same tone, knowing how people feel about it. It seems like a deliberate action to me, to start a flame war on an otherwise quiet Saturday evening.

“ a deliberate action to start a flame war.”

Nope, I hoped for a debate - though I did expect attacks. I am old enough to understand and accept and even sometimes agree with the genuine comments on here ( even those attacking me- fair enough.)

I also understand it is a complex issue. I spent all my youth being totally negatively self- conscious because I was extremely thin. 
 

Again, this is about children. Not adults.

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39 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

I will just put this here.  Emotional trauma is a huuuuuuge reason for eating disorders and addiction.  Some people turn to alcohol and/or drugs, some are tied up in lifelong cycles of co-dependent behavior and unhealthy relationships, some overeat, some undereat, some cut themselves, some are violent to others, the list goes on.  Overwork, stress, there are just a ton of reasons why people turn to unhealthy coping strategies.  In terms of morbidly obese people who are self-destructive, there is almost always deep-seated emotional trauma in their past or childhood.  So great, the cycle never ends as in adulthood they find it increasingly harder to lose the weight and are consistently mocked and ostracized by society, more comfort eating and so it goes on.  But you're "concerned" for their health... yeah right.  If one spent more than a passing second thinking about how irritated one is the by the sight of a fat person, one might know some of this.

Absolutely agree with you, Dessa.

But, again , my point has been about kids.

And just to clarify another point- I have friends, close friends, of all shapes and sizes , for all kinds of different reasons. Some are very overweight, some are skin and bones , some drink too much, some smoke too much, some eat only junk food, some eat healthily but put on weight, some eat a lot of junk and never put on weight - it is about the growing levels of obesity amongst youngsters which is disturbing.

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36 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

Really? Last year I put myself on a 1400 calorie/day diet for 8 weeks and nothing happened. I went to my doctor and told him and he said, "That's not normal. Let's do some blood work." He found that I had slightly low thyroid hormones and he put me on a levothyroxine. The weight literally fell off. I had only been struggling with an extra 10 kg to get my BMI where it should be and there it went.

Your case may be one of the few that has a medical basis.   As i mention in a previous post from today, these exceptions do not explain how upwards of 25% (oops - 35%)  of some western countries are obese.   If 35% of the population has developed a hormonal issue, that is shocking, but i simply don't believe it. 

 

What is puzzling is the growth in the rate of obesity in western countries.   Over the past 50-60 years, it has tripled in some places.   

 

36 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

Maybe you need to know more about weight, hormones, other medications for chronic conditions,  and, well, everything else surrounding the issue before you say something stupid like "eat less" and make yourself look a fool.

 

Outside of the few exceptional cases, and you are truly exceptional,    :lol:  eating a better diet, eating fewer calories and getting more activity works.  

 

There are certainly some nuances, but people who try to complicate things too much are often just looking for an easy way out or a way to avoid discomfort.  

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36 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

I remember these words one of my Southern (US) friends said to me: It's okay if your first reaction is judgmental and mean-spirited,  that's what your parents and an intolerant society taught you. It's your second reaction that matters and that's the one you act on.

 

precisely.  Which is why scorning those who are different from you is schoolyard behavior and with reflection and maturity is grown out of in adulthood.

 

I really see no difference between a schoolyard bully and a 60-year-old bully.  Except the kid maybe doesn't know any better yet but what's the excuse for the grownup?

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2 minutes ago, dessa_dangerous said:

 

precisely.  Which is why scorning those who are different from you is schoolyard behavior and with reflection and maturity is grown out of in adulthood.

 

Perhaps you have access to reports about how many times the word "idiot" appears on TT per day.   

 

It is 100% acceptable on this forum engage in schoolyard bullying or more comically to attempt to engage in schoolyard bullying and fail. :lol:

 

   

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14 minutes ago, john g. said:

Again, this is about children. Not adults.

 

If it really is about the children, then you need to change the accusatory tone, both towards the children and towards their parents. Have a little more understanding and sympathy for whatever problems they may be dealing with, not everybody is as strong as your Nicole when dealing with issues from childhood.

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1 hour ago, dessa_dangerous said:

 

precisely.  Which is why scorning those who are different from you is schoolyard behavior and with reflection and maturity is grown out of in adulthood.

 

I really see no difference between a schoolyard bully and a 60-year-old bully.  Except the kid maybe doesn't know any better yet but what's the excuse for the grownup?

67!🙏🏻😂

 

And it WASN ‘T ME that wrote the following about pre-school children on Crete-

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3475909/

 

If you care to read it, you might have a more rounded view then of what I have been trying to point out.

I live here. And I see it. I observe it. I notice it. And it is sad.

AND: how about reading this? The Guardian showing its nasty streak!😂

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/24/the-mediterranean-diet-is-gone-regions-children-are-fattest-in-europe

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13 hours ago, john g. said:

Have never seen this thread before but just wondering if the young lass here is still alive. Or with diabetes. Or has got her weight down to be able to live her life more happily.
I will probably get hammered on here for my comment. Fair enough.

There is no way I would accept she was truly happy when this picture was taken - unless she was brainwashed by her mum.
IF she was like this because of a genetic condition - fair enough.

 

IF NOT- why? Child cruelty. Sorry if you feel offended by my statement.

Everyone is talking about corona ( quite rightly ) but what about the other killers?

 

I don't see why this post generated so much outrage. 

 

I also believe John when he says he stumbled across this thread. 

 

Anyway, where were we? Ah, yes, fat kids. 

 

I think it a disgrace if you have fat kids and it it tantamount to child cruelty. OK, there are the obvious and the not so obvious exceptions as to why kids are fatties but let's look at some facts and then we can carry on with the emotional responses. 

 

Obesity and overweight  (The WHO) 

 

Quote

In 2019, an estimated 38.2 million children under the age of 5 years were overweight or obese. Once considered a high-income country problem, overweight and obesity are now on the rise in low- and middle-income countries, particularly in urban settings. In Africa, the number of overweight children under 5 has increased by nearly 24% percent since 2000. Almost half of the children under 5 who were overweight or obese in 2019 lived in Asia.

 

Over 340 million children and adolescents aged 5-19 were overweight or obese in 2016.

 

The prevalence of overweight and obesity among children and adolescents aged 5-19 has risen dramatically from just 4% in 1975 to just over 18% in 2016. The rise has occurred similarly among both boys and girls: in 2016 18% of girls and 19% of boys were overweight.

 

While just under 1% of children and adolescents aged 5-19 were obese in 1975, more 124 million children and adolescents (6% of girls and 8% of boys) were obese in 2016.

Overweight and obesity are linked to more deaths worldwide than underweight. Globally there are more people who are obese than underweight – this occurs in every region except parts of sub-Saharan Africa and Asia.

 

So the number of fat kids has quadrupled since 1975!  They can't all have lazy thyroids. 

 

Quote

What causes obesity and overweight?


The fundamental cause of obesity and overweight is an energy imbalance between calories consumed and calories expended.

 

Globally, there has been:

 

an increased intake of energy-dense foods that are high in fat and sugars; and


an increase in physical inactivity due to the increasingly sedentary nature of many forms of work, changing modes of transportation, and increasing urbanization.


Changes in dietary and physical activity patterns are often the result of environmental and societal changes associated with development and lack of supportive policies in sectors such as health, agriculture, transport, urban planning, environment, food processing, distribution, marketing, and education.

 

So basically, put the beef dripping sarnies down, get off your arses and do some sport.  

 

I'm going for a run now so see you later. 

 

p.s. I love being fit and I bet no one fat ever said I love being fat! 

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2 hours ago, LeonG said:

Two of my siblings have weight issues and two don't.  My sister is one that doesn't and she also raised her kids with a very healthy diet.  Guess what, one of them still ended up with a weight issue.  It's just not that simple. 

 

Definitely there is a genetic component... My mom has hypothyroidism, been on meds for most of her life. My younger sister had gained weight in the last 5ish years (growing up, she was always the skinny one!), and went in for testing. Yup, the same thyroid issue. I was always the chubby one growing up, but I've more or less maintained my weight for decades.

 

That said, my mom's mother and grandmother (my grandma and great-grandma) were both chubby -- even fat -- their entire lives. My grandma turned 98 yesterday and is still in good health. Lives alone, still drives a car, does all her own shopping, got all her wits and humour too. (Of course she does get help, but she is independent). I dare say she has several years left to go. But what's funny is that she still eats what she wants. Salted butter, for example, and goes through quite a lot. Enjoys her meats, and a tipple of Irish whiskey once a week. Her mother lived to be 98 also, but was in poorer health at the age, arthritis IIRC. 


My dad's family are also mostly overweight. Most of the older folks have died of heart attacks, and high blood pressure is common. (Worrisome for me...) His older brother, my uncle, is one exception, still trim and healthy at almost 80. My dad is really is too overweight for his age. He does eat healthy, but the problem is he eats a lot of junk additionally. Overeats in general. He is not interested in therapy or even admitting a problem, so what can you do. I know my dad had a poor and rough upbringing, his father was stern and also had an even rougher childhood himself, so it is clear to me in hindsight that comfort or stress eating is a coping thing for him. 

 

This poor guy below, whos's got one or two songs you may know, has what is typical among some American indigenous and Polynesian populations. So called "thrifty genes" help a person pack on weight in lean times, as historically this had obvious survival advantages. A lowered ability to process sugar and alcohols doesn't help (sugar was not part of the human diet for hundreds of thousands of years -- only occasionally with honey or fruit, whose wild versions were farrrr less sweet than the varietals of today). Poverty, erosion of traditional life (sedentary instead of active and roaming), and colonialism (re: captive markets for American distributors of processed cheap junk like coke, spam and crisco) only make it worse. 

 

 

He died age 38 of obesity complications, but had fluctuated between 400,500 and 750 pounds.   

 

In truth, humans weren't made to sit around all day indoors, eating calorically dense foods all the time. Sugars and fats taste so good for a reason, especially when combined... It feels good. 

 

ETA: I know there are different camps of what's the worst for us. Cheap sugar (highly processed white flour is almost sugar) is I think at the top of the list.

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WOW!!! I do not speak for everyone but i have had personal experience with fat and obesity and some of the sympathetic-like comments here justified being fat to me. We know not all fat because are fat because they overeat or want to be fat. There are health and emotional conditions that cause obesity but there are still fat people that are fat because of poor diets and over eating and maybe sometimes need to read that it should not be justified. This thread is about body fat and i do not see why someone should be condemned for not also discussing everything that is wrong in the world in his 5 sentence comment, it is of-course the culture of 'what ifs'. Tip-toeing around issues and condemning people that speak frankly is not always what is needed. There are justifications for everything that is wrong with the world, maybe we shouldn't always harp on those because in our effort to be 'kind' we are just telling people that it is okay to stay at rock bottom and sometimes IT IS NOT.

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About the thyroid thing. I think that most of the people I know are taking thyroxine including myself. It's weird. Must be something about all the chemicals in our food.

 

I got no positive results when I started taking it other than getting my whatever numbers corrected. Get regular blood tests to make sure I'm on track with the dosage.

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Ditto. I am also on levothyroxine. I have an underactive thyroid as do nearly 50% of the people I know.

 

Taking the levothyroxine did not have any effect on my weight at all. I just don't feel exhausted all the time and freezing cold like I used it. The blood work is fine and my doctor is happy as long as my TSH levels are fine. Regular blood tests etc.

 

I also think alot of it has to do with our food. We mainly get "empty" calories and it is very hard to eat a well balanced diet with all the necessary minerals and vitamins without spending a good amount of money.

 

There is a series on Netflix called "Fat, sick and nearly dead". Below is the trailer. It is a real eye opener.

 

 

 

The food industry and advertising is also to blame ( see links). I hate those aisles in supermarkets... Either Tobacco, alcohol or Candy/sweets at the end near the cashier desk...

 

https://tobacco.ucsf.edu/cigarette-giants-bought-food-companies-used-cartoon-characters-colors-flavors-boost-sales-sweetened-beverages

 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/09/23/a-short-history-of-big-tobaccos-fling-with-food.aspx

 

 

 

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I couldn’t edit my previous post...here’s one of the interesting Netflix documentary trailer.

 

 

Also, BBC documentary, Doctor in the House, Dr Rangan Chattergee.
youtu.be/j9HPSP7QwPU

 

there's also a second series

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So, a summary so far: some people feel personally offended by my post/s - fair enough. Not my intention.

Are there problems with obesity with children on Crete? Yes.

See my two links previously...one a medical report by medical peers and the other a Guardian article. I wrote neither of them. I observe. And I feel sorry for the kids. It is a societal problem made worse by the food industry and by changes in the lifestyle over the decades here away from one of the healthiest diets in the world to run-of-the-mill fast food, sugary shit --like elsewhere.

If you can´t accept that, I can´t help.I also can´t help it if I observe some  here getting on their motorbikes to drive just 3 metres to the mini-market to pick up some milk and then ride back home. Or the doctor, yes..doctor! who gets in her car, drives 50 metres at most to the rubbish container, winds down her car window, chucks the rubbish into the container , clöses the window and then drives home again. 

 

Sedentary life styles.

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