Problem landlords and rental deposit returns

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Has anyone looked to hold back the last two months rent (or whatever needed to match their caution money) when moving house here in Germany?

 

We are set to move to a new house next February but the company with whom we have our current contract have mentioned that we may not get any caution money back until next autumn because certain bills are not finalised until that time. This means we may have to wait near on a year to get any caution back from them (if we get owt back at all). This seems a tad rum to me and so I thinking of holding back the last two months rent (mainly because we need to give caution money to our new landlady).

 

Anyone done this and if so what happened? Anyone know what's the worst that could happen? Thanks for any help...

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i'm thinking those last two months rent and your security deposit are two different cans of worms.

 

i just moved out and they told me they will hold back 150-200 Euros because the 2006 Nebenkostenabrechnung won't be available until next summer. sucks, but that ain't illegal. either i get money back or they have to squeeze some more out of me.

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Anyone done this and if so what happened? Anyone know what's the worst that could happen?

The worst that can happen is they take you to court for the money, but if you do it just prior to leaving it's unlikely they'll go down that road as they have to send you reminders first. In the end you make a suggestion that you're leaving soon (assuming you handed your notice in already) and tell them to take it out of the kaution. It's a bit of a shitty thing to do but in all honesty, knowing how many people have been ripped off by landlords it's better in some respects to owe them money than you going on some never ending chase trying to get your money back. Again, it all depends on whether you have a good relationship with the "vermieter" or not & whether you wanna get tarred with the same brush as the "scheisse auslanders"

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I did it, land lord had a habit of delaying the caution payment, in one case the guy in the flat next door didnt get his back for nearly a year and had to fly back from the states and sit in the landlords office untill he was paid, if your land lord is good tho you shouldnt have a problem, also you can get the old land lord to transfer the caution to the new one

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The landlord cannot hold back the complete deposit, only the amount likely to be due.

 

The deposit can be withheld for example for the Betriebskostenabrechnung, but only a reasonable amount. The site Internet Ratgeber Recht is very helpful, I'll give you the gist of the info regarding your case in English:

 

1. You (the lessee) are entitled to having the deposit repaid. The interest is credited to you.

2. He (the lessor) has to provide you with a compilation of deposit, interest and debits with reasons and amounts of the debits backed up with documentation.

3. Requirements for repayment:

a ) the contract is terminated, the premises have been returned.

b ) the lessor is entitled to a reasonable period of time to check any possible claims, generally 3 - 6 months; according to the case the period can be shortened or extended (verdict: BGH VIII ZR 71/05).

Important:

If the claims are presumably less than the amount to be reimbursed the lessor may withhold only a reasonable amount.

Also, please check your lease. There is generally a clause which expressly forbids stopping rent payments with reference to the credit represented by the deposit. I strongly advise against doing so.

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Listen guys it could be easier.We have digital reading things on our radiators.The water dials and the like can be read a couple of days before you move out.Compare them to last years bill and the landlord can see if you owe anything.Not down to the last detail but roughly.

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We stayed in the apartment for nearly 2yrs(furnished Apt). Now we moved out. When we moved in it wasn't properly cleaned and there is so much wear and tear in the apartment. and the carpet was really really old one. Thats what the inspection guy wrote in the check list.

After twoyrs of staying, there are some stains on the carpet, now they are saying that i have to pay for the new carpet. We have been told that when ever you move in they shd put a new carpet. Now we are not in Germany and How to get my deposit back, Now he is asking do you have any insurance etc..

Please help. Thanks

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try fighting this from outside Germany. they will take advantage of this and you will not see your whole deposit back. too bad, sadly.

 

bullshit about replacing the carpet when you move out. if the carpet was shit when you moved in and this is protocoled, then you can leave it looking a bit like shit too upon moving out. the insurance, meaning your haftpflicht, could have paid a part of it if you damaged it while living there; however, you should have reported this right away. cause then if you try to report it now, your insurance will ask you why if you damaged it, did you not report it (or did you just move out)?. i assume, however, you canceled this once you left germany?

 

my bf had a carpet situation when he moved out of his last apartment. the landlord wanted him to pay for a new carpet. he involved his haftpflicht insurance and they said, the carpet had normal wear and tear (where his desk and chair were) and that the landlord could not ask for any damages and that considering the quality of the carpet and how it was, that they would not pay anything to replace the carpet because it was already about 8 years old. in the end my bf won, sure, but it was a lot of hassle.

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tornado, how much do they want you to pay for a new carpet? If you get a lawyer, they will probably be able to get you out of paying for the carpet by proving the damage was normal wear and tear on an old carpet. But you'd have to pay the lawyer. I'd say you don't have much chance of arguing successfully without one, since you're out of the country.

 

I'm moving out of Munich and have hired a lawyer to make sure we don't lose our deposit for not painting (which is no longer required by the tenant with our particular kind of rental contract.) I've already been billed over 200 euro for the lawyer to have a look at our rental contract, write letters to us and our landlady about the painting clause being unenforceable, and consulting over the phone. Fortunately, I have legal insurance which should pay for at least part of the bill. And the flat is a large one which would be quite expensive to paint if we just buckled under and did it.

 

So the question is, which would cost more, replacing the carpet or hiring a lawyer to fight the landlord? I've heard that Jung and O'Hara-Jung, who advertise here on TT and speak English, are quite competent at helping out people in your situation.

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Hi

 

I m shifiting out from my current house in munich.

 

I m expecting problems from my house owner , with my kaution deposit

 

If he says that something is damaged when it was how it was given to me . and i say no to that

 

Do i have any rights against the house owner or should i accept all the nonsense he says and

 

loose a BIG part my kaution ?

 

Regards

 

Topics merged by admin

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What is the damaged item? Must be something serious if you are losing a big chunk of your deposit. Did you point out this damage when you moved in?

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do you not have some type of check-in report where any damages were noted when you moved in? If not, then you don't really have a leg to stand on...

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Perhaps you should start by reading existing threads on the subject, deposit-related questions (read: problems) come up quite frequently. Do a search for deposit, kaution, landlords, etc. (I would have posted a link for you but not all the threads are listed when you search for only one of those keywords.)

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Or Rechtschutzversicherung (insurance for legal fees), which could cover the cost of a lawyer to sort you out.

 

I moved back to the US from Munich in February, and we unfortunately decided to hire a lawyer to fight our landlady on "damages" we disagreed on. (The disputed damages are not painting the flat and mold on the bathroom walls and ceiling.) We still haven't seen our deposit, but the legal insurance is covering all the work our lawyer is doing on our behalf to recover it, up to and including court costs if they become necessary.

 

I wasn't aware that liability insurance would normally cover damage to rental property. I would have thought our lawyer would have asked us if we carried it, if it did. We did had liability insurance, as well.

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News flash: private liability insurance does not cover damages from wear and tear in an apartment. If the landlord can demand re-painting of walls (which he can not simply do in every case as far as I know), if there is mold from humidity in bathroom, this would not be covered by private liability insurance. If on the other hand you destroyed the balkony door by accident or destroyed part of the kitchen from burning food, this would be covered.

 

not sure if legal liability insurance can still cover you now, because the legal dispute is already pending and this would be a kind of free rider problem for the insurance if you only sign the insurance when you know that there is already a lawsuit pending. Not sure how the Mieterverein handels that but could be worth a try.

 

Cheerio

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Update on our situation, in case anyone is interested. We heard from our lawyer in Munich today, who had a letter with attachments from the landlady. The upshot is that we didn't have to pay for renovating the flat, but the landlady found another way to recover some of her expenses.

 

There was a mold problem in the bathroom, due to only one window and no other ventilation. We really only had trouble with it in the winter, which is when we moved out. Usually we just cleaned the walls and ceiling with some of that anti-mold stuff and left it till it came back again. When we moved, we decided not to clean it so the landlady would see what the problem was. We assumed it was her responsibility to fix it. Well, it was, but we should have "promptly" notified her of the problem, which we didn't. So she had an excuse to have it professionally removed and to bill us 1,000 EUR for the job, taken out of our Kaution. The ironic thing about it is, she would never have taken on that expense herself, if we had notified her. I'm sure she would have just told us to shower with the window open and use the spray-on stuff!

 

Since the landlady got a statement from the previous tenants (who lived there 7 years) that they never had a mold problem, and she also attached the bill for the work on the bathroom, our lawyer advised us that we would probably not win if we wanted to take the landlady to court over it.

 

Anyway, we are finally getting the remainder of the Kaution and our pathetic accumulated interest back (we moved 6 months ago today), and the bathroom mold removal cost less than renovating the entire apartment would have. We don't pay anything for the legal services, because we had insurance for that.

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