Problem landlords and rental deposit returns

690 posts in this topic

Police will do nothing about it as its a civil case. You'd either have to have a Mahnbescheid issued or take him to court directly. But you are at risk that he is within his rights. 30 EUR isn't very much for a repair if you consider that 1 hour of labour is about EUR 50.- .

 

If you have a liability insurance you might submit a claim to them.

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I have never been to Regensburgs.

 

The amount of money is not important.

The behaviour of dishonest landlord can not be accepted.

 

What if I complain him to German Polize?

 

What's 'right' according to principle must equal the overall relevance in the real world...it's just not worth it in this case. Walk away.

 

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The amount of money is not important.

The behaviour of dishonest landlord can not be accepted.

 

Zazaaser, I can understand that you are upset about dishonest behaviour.

 

But, while I don't know what the full amount of your deposit was, let me assure you, €30 is no amount worth fighting for. There are plenty of really dishonest landlords who keep the full deposit, who claim that a number of expensive items were damaged, that there were dirty patches on the walls & they had to repaint, etc etc. Any excuse will do not to return your deposit to you.

 

I could spend all day telling you about individual stories of landlords ripping off tenants - my last Irish landlord kept €400 of my deposit coz he 'needed to repaint the apartment'. The only dirty patch in the whole flat was in the living room near the windows out to a very busy street. The wall had been covered in filth from the traffic, he left it dirty when he moved out, I was his first ever tenant, and well, the dirt didn't come off properly when I tried to clean it.

 

And that has cost me €400? I could have gone to the small claims court, and I had planned to, but I never did. My fault.

 

But... when a landlord only keeps the very small sum of €30, I would believe that this landlord truly believes the tenant was responsible for a €30 damage to something.

 

This might not be the case in your situation. You believe you left the apartment in perfect shape. And that might very well be true. But my point is that if someone keeps only €30 of a deposit, they probably truly believe there was €30 worth of damage. And if it was really the Fußleiste they believe was damaged, then they probably included the cost of a new Fußleiste plus labour.

 

I know that at least theoretically, that's still something you could argue about, but really, I don't believe that in your case, there was any malice intended.

 

So, instead of putting so much time and effort and mental agony into this, I would also say, just let it go.

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I asked him several times for the reasons. First he said we did final cleaning. When I reject and object to him for cuting 30 €uro, he accepted that my room is clean I have written proof.

 

But he generates other unreal reason. He wrote me that you damaged the room. He claims that there was a damage on one of the Fußleiste in my room. He repaired it. But this bad Fußleiste can not cost 30 €uro. All the Fußleiste are very very bad.

 

He accepted my room was clean but he cuts 30 Euro from me. What a logic is that. If I know he cuts 30 euro, why do I clean the room? I spent two days for cleaning.

 

I cannot understand that I must be explaining this to a 50-year-old scientist.

 

The 30€, as you have been explaining, is to repair the damage you were causing in the room. Obviously it is having nothing to do with the cleaning.

 

 

But he generates other unreal reason. He wrote me that you damaged the room. He claims that there was a damage on one of the Fußleiste in my room. He repaired it. But this bad Fußleiste can not cost 30 €uro. All the Fußleiste are very very bad.

 

When I reject and object to him for cuting 30 €uro, he accepted that my room is clean. But he generates other unreal reason. He wrote me that you damaged the room. He claims that there was a damage on one of the Fußleiste in my room. He repaired it. But this bad Fußleiste can not cost 30 €uro. All the products it the apartment is very very bad quality

 

As you are a scientist, I am sure you are very familiar with the word: Proof. Seems you are not having any here in your favour. You are not denying that you damaged the Fußleisten. You damage you pay.

 

 

I rent a room in Germany for 4 months and left it clean and tidy without seeing landowner.

 

I asked him several times for the reasons. First he said we did final cleaning. When I reject and object to him for cuting 30 €uro, he accepted that my room is clean I have written proof.

 

3 months ago I asked him about final cleaning. He wrote me that when you leave, your room must be clean. So, before leaving the room I washed and cleaned all the things and I took photos before leaving.

 

1- He cut my money without consistent reasons. My room is clean, I did the final cleaning.

 

The Fußleisten was damaged and you were being charged. Nothing with cleaning. Move on!

 

Go to the Bauhaus, Hornbach, Obi and see how much a Fußleisten is costing. Then add the cost for labour. I am telling you 30€ is little.

 

And lastly...

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ngBsN8AeyU. The landowner do not want to pay, the tenant really damages the flat.

 

That video is very immature.

 

So, since I am retired police I am begging you to please go to the closest Polizeiinspektion and report this. I am having no doubt that this man will be arrested and your 30€ refunded immediately. If that is not working, perhaps you should be having a lawyer. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe you should just be having a nice beer, sleep, and forget all this. Is 30€ worth all this stress?

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When i was young and stupid, my roommate left me to do all final cleaning of the flat by myself, and nevertheless my dishonest landlord still forfeited half of my deposit, i.e. 300€, which is a lot for penniless student from asia...

Well, you live and learn (that landlords generally will try to find any excuse to forfeit deposits)

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Trust me, not only is 30 euros not worth fighting for, but as desdemona points out it is far less than he could have taken as many of us have learned. I am still frustrated with our last move out in which we lost quite a lot of money from the Kaution/deposit. But I'm not annoyed that they just took the money, what I'm annoyed about is that at the first check-out inspection they informed us that they would not take the money from us if we fixed a few things - which included re-painting some walls (that, mind you, we never touched, but had become not-so-pristine-white from normal wear and tear over a nearly 5 year period of time). So, my husband went out and bought the paint and supplies, we primed everything and painted the damned walls. They returned a few weeks later for the "final" inspection and guess what? They told us we didn't do a good enough job. At that point I just about lost it and more or less retorted "well then you should not have told us it was even possible to fix it ourselves in the first place!" Moral of the story: they would have taken our money either way and we probably should have consulted the Mieterschutzbund before even attempting to make the fixes ourselves (especially given that we'd already had some "issues" in the past that necessitated our joining the schutzbund to begin with).

 

What can I say, you live and learn. Just be glad you aren't out several hundred euros like we are.

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The guy in the video is a moron. Recorded himself commiting a crime and posted it to the internet. It really makes you wonder if humanity is actually getting dumber as a whole.

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So the system there goes as follows: the first person who rented the room directly from the landlord paid the Kaution (240 eur) directly to the landlord himself, but then the system that they have says that when this person leaves the room, the next person who will take the room will pay the previous operson that was in the room his/her (240 eur) Kaution.

....

The problems were bearable till the end of last novemeber, when i was taking a shower and for the first time i tried to use the armature in the tub to get up, but since the house is apparently a survivor from the 2nd world war, the ceramic around the armature got a bit detached and it looked not so nice, so the 2 flatmates talked with me and they said i had to pay either 200 eur to repair it or otherwise i had to move out, so of course i said i'm not going to pay for that because i didn't intentinally damage it, it's the landlord's responsibility that everything works fine when used normally.

 

So the argument got heated up a little bit and i said you know what guys we don't have to bother one another anymore, i'll just move out at the end of December and if you guys want i can find you another person for the next 3 months so that he pays the rent while you guys search for someone else to take the room. So they both said no no we will find someone it's not so hard to find that here in Stuttgart, so we agreed that i'll move out at the end of December, the agreement was done on the 15th of December.

 

so i searched extensively and found another room, I cleaned up everything before i left and left the furniture there and gave them the keys and everything, but before i left they didn't say anything about me moving early (before the 3 months notice or anything)

 

since the 7th of January, I've been trying to reach them but to no avail, i sent messages, letters and i called but receieved no answer at all.

so i got worried and i managed to get the lanlord's number and called him, he said he's the one who paid for the repairs of the armature (like he should) and he said he still hasn't recieved the Kaution from them yet. But he said that he'll call them and tell them to answer me.

 

now i've been trying to reach them but i still can't, and apparently they are not going to give me back my money, because i saw that they put an ad for the room on wg gesucht and now the ad isn't there anymore, which means that there's already someone in the room. And i'm suspectimg that the landlord and these previous flatmates made a deal and decided that they will keep tossing me to one another till i just give up

 

I'm really, really sorry, but I think you're SOL unless you have any of this (namely, the payments you made to them for the Kaution and fixing the bathroom thing) in writing and even then I'm not sure what your rights are... but one hard lesson I've learned about living in Germany is that if there's money involved I must always get everything in writing and signed by both parties. Also, if the other party isn't willing to sign something in writing, then you usually know something's fishy.

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Hi all,

 

I would like to know if landlord can keep 40 Euro of my deposit just for cleaning reason.

In fact there was a pillow and blanket on the bed when I moved in . I told the landlord's assistant that I don't want to use them because they are highly dirty. She brought out the pillow and told me that please put the blanket under the bed.

I did so and now I've moved out while the landlord has deducted 40 Euro and telling "I don't know what you have done with our blanket since it's highly dirty"!!!

The problem is he didn't come along to have a look at the room and now he is claiming the case.

40 Euro is nothing for me. Just I don't want to let him do the same for all the next tenants and make it as a habit for himself and a source of money. (The room was in a dorm with several rooms so it can be considerable amount if he wants to do the same for all)

Thanks in advance for your kind replies.

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Thanks for the reccomendations!

If I fight with the dishonest landlord how long will I stay in a Jail.

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Are you saying you didn't get a single message among all these replies here?

 

Your saying the landlord acted dishonestly is an ASSUMPTION. I, for one, am absolutely convinced that he believed fully that he was within his rights. And he may very well have been within his rights.

 

If someone wants to rip you off, they won't stop at €30. So, again: chill.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi!

I moved from my old apartment on the 30th of October 2013 and I'm still waiting for the landlord to return my provision. At the time, he told me he would return it as soon as the wall paper was fixed (my cat scratched the wall paper in one of the walls). I had to pay 2700€ for the Kaution and he told me that the cost of fixing the wall would be around 500€, so he still has a lot of money to return. The wall was fixed on the first week after we moved (I know the new tenant and he told me so) but the landlord keeps making up excuses not to return the money. First, he told me that the guy that fixes the wall didn't give him the receipt so he couldn't take the amount from the total value. Then, he told me he was too busy. It has been 4 months since I moved and he's still keeping my money. I have been calling him almost every week since the end of November. I'm not sure if he is doing this to keep the money or if he genuinely forgets to transfer it, but either way it has been too long.

My question is whether or not I can threaten him saying that I'm going to call my lawyer, maybe to scare him a little, or if there is any kind of institution that regulates these things without taking this issue to court.

Thank you.

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is it 12 months? Thought I always read 6 months to wait for all of the bills to clear. I moved 3 months ago, house was in great shape, LL looked it over when we left and seemed happy, I have a real thorough move in inspection report signed by a third party witness, only thing covered by nebenkosten was water/sewer/garbage - still I patiently wait. kind of jealous of our friends who the LL returned the whole deposit in cash the day they moved out. joined the mieterverein months before we moved out just to hedge my bets as he apparently kept half of the prior tenant's deposit for "yard maintenance"

</rant off>

 

 

 

poohkins, you are comparing apples and pears.

 

Your landlord has 12 months from the end of the Abrechnungszeitraum (period for which the calculation is due) to present the calculation of the operational costs.

 

Generally, a period of six months is considered reasonable before the deposit is returned. The part likely to be applied to any surcharge for operational costs can be held until the calculation is presented.

 

Request app. 90% of the deposit to be paid now, he can keep the rest until the calculation has been provided.

 

Okay, after a friendly phone call the old LL has proposed keeping a few hundred for helping to replace the carpeting and repairing one roulladen. The carpets were old and generally worn out when we moved in, and we steam cleaned them after the furniture was gone before we moved out, but our friend's large dog did run through the house once with muddy paws and long nails (he was so happy to see familiar faces months after his boy had moved away that I couldn't be mad at him), so maybe the dog did some damage, or maybe they're just worn out (there were no wine spills, burns (other than the pre-existing burns) or pet stains (we have no pets). One roulladen broke on us literally in the last week we were there (the strap came off when trying to open it); in our prior house the LL just fixed the roulladens when they broke. Our contract does have a kleinreparaturen clause for 75/occurrence, 200/year. The move-in inspection says this about the DR/LR floors: teppichboden 15 yrs. Hell, I attached a copy of the page regarding the dining/living room since the handwriting is kind of sketchy.

 

So, knowing that he kept half of the last guy's deposit for yard cleaning (apparently I did better as he said nothing about the yard) and also considering I do have an active membership in the mieterverain, should I

 

a) be happy he only wants to keep a few hundred especially considering 1 broken roulladen and maybe the large happy dog damaged the worn out carpet, or

 

b ) write a nice response saying "forgive my asking, but WTF was wrong with the carpet beside the fact that it was worn out when we moved in and per my understanding of the kleinreparaturen I'm only on the hook for 75euro for the roulladen, or

 

c) go have the happy mieterverain lawyers write a happy "give me all of my frikkin' money back" letter?

 

To be honest I'm leaning towards a) as I'm more of a life is short move on person and it's only a few hundred euro and even though I'm pretty sure the happy dog did no real damage I can never be 100% certain and yes I lose sleep worrying if I actually screwed someone else over. But on the flip side I'd like to think I did my part as a tenant to keep LLs in check and on the up and up. So I guess I could repharse my question this way: is he actually proposing a fair and honest offer, or am I getting screwed, even if it's just a little, just for the sake of making sure that the tenant gets screwed a little bit?

 

He also mentioned nothing of the nebenkosten (garbage & water/sewer); we never put the cans out even once and I'm pretty sure the trash collectors in the HD area charge per pickup/weight on top of the base fee. Obviously I need to ask politely about that and hope that my daughter taking advantage of a gigantic water heater with 30 minute showers didn't run the water bill way high.

 

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Exactly. The landlord is only entitled to withhold an amount approximate to the expected surcharge, i.e. whatever supplement you paid last year plus a percentage under consideration of the higher energy costs in the last year. Calculate that and send your landlord a hell-fire letter demanding the rest by (insert exact date two weeks plus one day), send it certified with delivery receipt. Indicate that you will not hesitate to obtain legal assistance should payment not occur, that you will charge the landlord interest for the delay and any costs necessary to retrieve your percentage of the deposit. Act immediately if the deadline expires without payment, consult a lawyer and ask him/her to obtain a court order (Mahnbescheid). That should prod the landlord into action.

When did you receive your Heizkostenabrechnung last year? That's how long the landlord plans to retain your deposit, and if it's more than six months after moving out come down on him like a ton of bricks. Did you pay a supplement or did you receive a credit? If the latter, the landlord is not entitled to retain any part of the deposit.

Disclaimer: Get proper legal advice before doing anything rash, but a certified letter to the landlord may work wonders.

 

 

 

First, he told me that the guy that fixes the wall didn't give him the receipt so he couldn't take the amount from the total value. Then, he told me he was too busy.

Don't bother sending him any threats. Apply for a court order (Mahnbescheid) as noted above minus the costs for the wall repair.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi

 

I recently rented an apartment some months in Germany. My landlord kept my deposit of about 400 euro.

 

I didn't discuss any damages with my landlord when I moved out. There may have been some damages, but I don't see how it could be that amount.

Our contract detailed that my landlord has to return the deposit within 5 weeks or make "gegenanspruch". It has not been 5 weeks yet. I have not received my deposit or even an itemized account of the damages.

 

I moved away from Germany and back home again(other EU-country). What can I do?

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Okay, after a friendly phone call the old LL has proposed keeping a few hundred for helping to replace the carpeting and repairing one roulladen. The carpets were old and generally worn out when we moved in, and we steam cleaned them after the furniture was gone before we moved out, but our friend's large dog did run through the house once with muddy paws and long nails (he was so happy to see familiar faces months after his boy had moved away that I couldn't be mad at him), so maybe the dog did some damage, or maybe they're just worn out (there were no wine spills, burns (other than the pre-existing burns) or pet stains (we have no pets). One roulladen broke on us literally in the last week we were there (the strap came off when trying to open it); in our prior house the LL just fixed the roulladens when they broke. Our contract does have a kleinreparaturen clause for 75/occurrence, 200/year. The move-in inspection says this about the DR/LR floors: teppichboden 15 yrs. Hell, I attached a copy of the page regarding the dining/living room since the handwriting is kind of sketchy.

 

So, knowing that he kept half of the last guy's deposit for yard cleaning (apparently I did better as he said nothing about the yard) and also considering I do have an active membership in the mieterverain, should I

 

a) be happy he only wants to keep a few hundred especially considering 1 broken roulladen and maybe the large happy dog damaged the worn out carpet, or

 

b ) write a nice response saying "forgive my asking, but WTF was wrong with the carpet beside the fact that it was worn out when we moved in and per my understanding of the kleinreparaturen I'm only on the hook for 75euro for the roulladen, or

 

c) go have the happy mieterverain lawyers write a happy "give me all of my frikkin' money back" letter?

 

To be honest I'm leaning towards a) as I'm more of a life is short move on person and it's only a few hundred euro and even though I'm pretty sure the happy dog did no real damage I can never be 100% certain and yes I lose sleep worrying if I actually screwed someone else over. But on the flip side I'd like to think I did my part as a tenant to keep LLs in check and on the up and up. So I guess I could repharse my question this way: is he actually proposing a fair and honest offer, or am I getting screwed, even if it's just a little, just for the sake of making sure that the tenant gets screwed a little bit?

 

He also mentioned nothing of the nebenkosten (garbage & water/sewer); we never put the cans out even once and I'm pretty sure the trash collectors in the HD area charge per pickup/weight on top of the base fee. Obviously I need to ask politely about that and hope that my daughter taking advantage of a gigantic water heater with 30 minute showers didn't run the water bill way high.

 

So I actually went with option b ) and wrote him a polite email asking what, specifically was wrong with the carpeting warranting replacement (besides being worn out), pointed out that my deposit was 80 euro higher than he was calculating, and asked about balancing out the nebenkosten (water/sewer/garbage). He didn't reply, he just deposited the amount of money that he first offered. I'm guessing there's no point asking about the interest earned over 16 months.

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I had a subtenancy which ended by the end of May 2013,meaning I moved out 1.June. The subtenancy agreement says:"Die Kaution wird sechs Monate nach Beendigung des Untermietverhältnisses zur Rückzahlung fällig." I have had this in every single subtenancy agreement in Germany but have gotten my money back within one month after leaving the premises every time before this. So, I did ask this person two months after moving out when she'd return my deposit, and she told me to leave it for the time being as she was not liable to pay me until the six months had passed.

 

Does this German sentence above mean the deposit is due by the date six months from the end of the subtenancy or after it? Is there a timeframe within which it would have to be paid back?

 

The date (1.Dec2013)of course has passed already and I think this person is trying to buy time as every time I ask when is she going to pay, she either ignores me or answers by telling me there is a question of a rise in electricity bill between her and the person who she is a (sub-?)tenant of. The subtenancy agreement covers all bills, and the electricity bill became more expensive (use increased because of electric heating/cold weather?)already two months before I moved in (I have seen it) so I can't be solely blamed. No, I stupidly have no readings of the meter as the agreement was on the 'all-inclusive'-basis. I did use an electric heater for a week (it was not on the whole time - this was a scary altbau with faulty electricity/VERY OLD wiring) as the coal oven was backing smoke up into the room and the apartment was as warm as +3c without any heating!(The March 2013 - when I moved in - was the coldest in Berlin since 1880).

 

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Hi again folks.

 

You will already know me as Martlet, but after a new computer, being in the midst of a move etc. I cannot for the lifeof me access that account.

 

Okay, to the point. I have combed through every post to look for an answer to my Kaution problem, but cannot find a good answer. We duly gave notice, cooperated with our dearly demented landlady and landlord by accepting eight tenant viewings in a week, staged the house, leant over backwards. Tenants were found quickly - nice people poor things) - and understandably wanted to get into the house by this weekend. Our furniture left on Monday of this week, since when we have slept on mattresses on the floor while cleaning. This is where it gets interesting.

 

The living room had not been painted in decades. It had grey-yellow paint here, almost brown paint there, where, since the 1970s, it had been hidden behind huge furniture. Suffice to say it was UGLY, drab and depressing, once our furniture was out. We gave ourselves four days to do what we had to do cleaning-wise, then I looked at the walls throughout. Three bedrooms had been freshly-painted white when we moved in, 30 months ago. They don't look bad at all, except the study, which I used a lot and would admit might need a coat of paint. Open windows = dust and pollen, in this neck of the woods. But it is not bad. But we only have so much time and certainly not that much energy, hubby being almost 69 and me in my early sixties so we made a decision which, according to our landlord, was the wrong one. We painted that disgusting living room so that the new tenants could move in this weekend and not groan at the ugliness of a forty-year-old paint job, especially since they want to paint those three bedrooms in colours their kids want.

 

The landlords arrived today, looking everywhere. "This house is filthy," he said, when he found ONE little spider thread behind a curtain pelmet. Then it really got going. "You must paint these three rooms that we had freshly painted." I explained that the lovely family moving in want their own colours. "It doesn't matter. The walls must be bright white," she said. "The contract says you must." It went downhill from there There is an electrical fault. 100 euros per small incident,maximum 400 Euros, he said. "So you must pay 400." I said that this is one fault, not four, that it is not a small issue (we had an electrician friend give his opinion)but could require removing part of the wall! Then came the issue of the garden. We gave up tending that when the landlady started turning up, unannounced, digging up what we planed, cutting down trees, planting new ones, watering them on our dime, then digging them up and taking them away. She was here whenever we had guests, never made an appointment. I told them as much. He backs down and says "Forget the garden." But long and short is, they are keeping our kaution. He refused to give an protocol detailing what he wanted doing and said we will talk on Monday, our last day here.

 

Our neighbour, himself a vermieter, said that is not legal, that they should have given us one today, that they cannot insist,for example, in painting the house white AFTER the new tenants move in. He - our neighbour - is trying to arrange a meeting with the new family to see if we can come to an arrangement, but the landlady says this is not possible, that we MUST do the painting within the next three days. "You have to follow the contract." In light of the fact that we have painted the disgusting room,and that she has hardly followed the contract during our tenancy, I disagree. I think that if the newbies,moving in asap, want to paint the walls their colours - and especially is we contribute towards the cost of paint, it is unreasonable of our landlords to insist that we paint it one day, and the new ones paint it the next.

 

Okay, what do you all think? Oh, and the landlord said glibly that we should get a lawyer and he will fight me in court.

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It sounds like you have an obnoxious landlord with legal insurance who just wants to keep your money, but, at the end of the day what is written in the contract is what will count if lawyers get involved.

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Short of hiring a lawyer you might ask the Mieterverein for advice. What about trying to come to an arrangement which says the new tenant will paint the rooms for you (in colours he wants) for whatever amount oof €€, but undertakes to paint them white if he moves out?

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