To the Australians: Why are you here in Germany?

192 posts in this topic

'Australia sucks'??? Now that is a truely horrid thing to say. I've taken it to heart. I grew up in rural Australia, surrounded by true dinkim ozzies, all living hard honest lives. True values by all, and a strong prevailing community spirit. Where I grew up, international law objectors are an unknown species. And should one ever show its face, the local coppa will be waiting, red and blue flashing.

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Nixe: you're right I found Sydneysiders were a lot more open in their attitude than in Melbourne - also much more of a work ethic there too...

 

however something came in on my email today which made me realise just how insular Oz has become:

 

'after a survey revealed half of Australians do not know flights contribute to global warming'

 

that's quite an eyeopener.

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I grew up in Australia, what a great country for a kid to grow up in. I have travelled all over the country, and seen the growth of the country. I grew up in Sydney (in a large house directly on the beach, oh what heaven), I worked for years in both Sydney and Melbourne and constantly visited Brisbane (that has changed a lot over the years, and in my eyes becoming a very beautifull city in its own right).

 

I love being with friends here and going on google earth and showing all my friends here where I lived in OZ, where I went to school etc... and I love their reponse 'what the hell are you doing here'.

 

Its a question I cant directly answer, however my view ofAustralia is about lifestyle, and here in Munich I have an equal lifestyle to what I had in Sydney.

 

Whould I ever live again in sydney? Maybe one day I would look at moving back there to retire (and thats in around 30 years). In the meantime I am here to enjoy Munich and the rest of europe as much as I can.

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Have been reading this thread for a couple of days now and waiting for someone to use that classic Aussie saying:

"It's horses for courses!"

I've got a German father and an Australian mother and have toggled between the Northern and Southern hemisphere for most of my life. Which place would I pick as the better one -I don't believe there is any definitive answer. It all depends on your personality, preferences and where you are in your life as to what suits best.

 

For me, it isn't really a question about working out which country has the most pluses, but rather, identifying the negatives with each scenario and then deciding which packet of disadvantages I am better equipped/prepared to deal with. Anyone can deal with the advantages (who would say no to a beautiful sunny day on Noosa beach. Likewise, a crisp winter day with clear blue sky and perfect powder in the Alps sounds equally enticing!) but it is the negatives which are the real challenge to live with.

 

If you dislike beaches, can't stand rugby or cricket, are afraid of snakes and spiders and can't live in a house without proper insulation, Oz is probably not the place to choose.

 

If you dislike cold weather and rain, formality and poor customer service, you probably wouldn't choose Germany!

 

We've been in Australia now for 5 years this time around and have absolutely loved it, as we did the times before. That is not to say it has been without its challenges and frustrations - just as we had them when we were living in Europe. I think Australia is a fabulous place to raise children, but there aren't the same family friendly policies here - although the politicians will argue that there are! We're now likely to move back to Europe later this year, not because we are unhappy in Oz, but because an opportunity has arisen that will provide us with a new experience and broaden the kids horizons even further. We'll probably spend the rest of our lives moving between the two - and consider ourselves extremely lucky to be able to take advantage of the best of both worlds.

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I've been on the negative side of this argument, but I think I'll do a post to try to balance it up. I can understand why some people would prefer Australia over Germany. I guess my point however is that Australia is not clearly a better place to live than Germany like it seems that everyone in Europe thinks it is.

 

We've seen a lot of posts here that makes Australia look pretty negative, but we're also only hearing from people that have left Australia and live elsewhere. If these people thought Australia was better, they'd be living there and not here. Taking their views as the definitive view on Australia would be foolish.

 

I would have liked to see some more arguments from the pro-Australia people here. I would truly like to be able to give a more fair argument myself, but even after this thread I'm no closer to giving anyone positive points about the place other than the ones I mentioned right at the start.

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I don't believe there is any definitive answer. It all depends on your personality, preferences and where you are in your life as to what suits best.

I totally agree with this.

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I have been reading this thread with interest and agree with an earlier poster that it is necessary to distinguish between those who are here for a shorter work assignment and those who have moved here permanently. I am one of the more permanent ones. I enjoyed reading Hutcho’s earlier summaries and agree with most of the points the Aussies have made in this thread. I am, however, somewhat irritated by some of the more sweeping statements made about Australians made by people who lived there for a short period – it wasn’t really the point of this thread was it? I don’t want to get into a tit-for-tat cycle (self-defeating prophesy), but feel the need to stop being a laid back Aussie and add my two-bobs worth.

 

For example, I found Fran’s comments particularly interesting and not necessarily representative. I must say I was a little surprised and sorry that she sees things this way – and happy that we have met at a couple of Toytown events where I found her to be friendly and open person, otherwise I could have been more irritated by the continual bagging of Aussie that she seems to be indulging in in this thread.

 

I have spent many years living in Melbourne and I had the opposite experience to Fran – admittedly I joined a hockey club and played in an orchestra and I enjoyed the fact the work colleagues socialised afterwork. Some of my ex-work colleagues are still close friends today. Integration happens when you integrate yourself – I never had a problem meeting new people or making new friends there.

 

I have lived in a number of cities in Australia (5 in total) and have had to regularly go through the settling in phase, getting to know new people, get involved in new social and sporting clubs etc. I must admit is DOES get harder as one gets older, but if you put in the effort you get the returns. In Australia we don't have strong ex-pat communities like in Hong Kong so you are definitely more out there on your own. In fact many Australians won’t know what an ex-pat is. There are so many different nationalities living in Australia that one is not automatically “Special

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a few points that haven't come up yet:

 

Dirty horrible shite snow. Back home in OZ, we keep our snow in perfectly acceptable places, like on Mt Hotham etc. where its available when desired, and all together quite practical. But here, its piled up for months sometimes IN THE MIDDLE of the city! and its not nice fluffy white snow... no no no, its dirty, dirty grey and studded with dog turds...

 

and HELLO?, a 300 question exam and a practical test TO GO FISHING?? there would be bloody riots in the streets if they tried to put that BS through in australia. I mean, whats the point, really, of having this wonderful beer, when you cant knock a few back with ya mates at the local fishing hole? its barbaric.

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I personally would like it to be twice as snowy as it is here in Munich during the winter.. definite plus for me.. makes a difference from the same weather the whole year around.. snow in Australia is pathetic.. I wouldn't bother..

 

You're right about the fishing license. Same goes for getting a drivers license over here, about 100 times more complex than in Australia. Whether thats a good thing or not, I don't know, but its a pain in the ass for sure..

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you misunderestimate me: I like snow! i just dont like the dirty grey dogshit-laden mounds of crap i have to dig my car out of and stomp though. the city is no place for that shit. snow -> countryside, mountians = good; street, footpath = bad

 

and more paperwork is always bad; and the price too! i mean, its just fishing... This was the nation who sent out teams of young men to act independantly and overrun all of civilisation in their mighty panzers, and now the poor saps can't put a worm on a hook without a 2 day instructional seminar.

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And they almost succeeded with the Panzers. Maybe its cause they had to do a 6 month intensive course on how to operate one before they were allowed their license :)

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I have to agree with Tassie Dave about the fishing exams. I can still remember the day when my husband came home with several kilos of folders with the material for reading in preparation for the fishing exam! I told him he had rocks in his head and to wait until we go back to Oz where he just needs to be able to read a map and find the nearest water source. The challenge now is just to find a water source that hasn't dried up... ;)

 

And for me - stuff this hunter-gatherer nonsense - I'm heading to Doyle's at Watsons Bay in Sydney for my salt and pepper calamari as soon as I get back.

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If you come from Ireland/UK/America/Canada/even most of Europe you'll probably get on OK in Australia. But if you're Chinese or Middle Eastern, you should be ready to experience some xenophobia..

Not all Americans are white, in fact America is about 35 percent non-white(making it far more racially diverse than Europe, Australia, NZ, or Canada), some states and cities have more non white people, spend some time in America, I lived in California for a while, there was a very wide mix of different races, South American Mestizos, Black, East Asian, South Asian, White European, everything you could imagine. New York, Chicago, Miami, even a good amount of Texas is very racially diverse.

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Not all Americans are white

Yeh, I realise that, but my point stands. I think it matters more where you come from than your skin colour in Australia. If you're black and come from America I think you'd get by pretty well in Australia. If you're black and speak English like you come from Nigeria, then you'll have more problems.

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With regards to my personal situation it is going to be a lot easier to migrate to Australia than Europe, the laws with regards to becoming a legal resident in Europe are tricky, my professional credentials are recognized in Australia but not in most continental European countries. I was approved for Australian PR because I am in a profession which is suffering a severe shortage in Australia. Then again everyone's situation is different. For someone from North America Australia will not be an experience of great culture shock but it is indeed one of the better places in the world.

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I miss the aussie humour ... and the beaches. But when I'm back I miss the beer gardens and the snow. Am torn.

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I am in Munich temporarily (seriously considering changing that). I am a Greek Australian - have experienced growing up in Greece and Australia. For me and my family, it was easier in Australia. We had more opportunities for education, employment, health care support etc. My parents went to Australia to find a better life for us and they did the right thing. Of course we continued to holiday in Greece any chance we could get.

 

I recently (a year ago) had the chance to move to Munich for work. And I love it! I miss Australia (friends, family, beach) - but Germany and the rest of Europe has so much to offer me right now. I am hoping to string this contract out for as long as I can. I don't know if I will move back to Australia yet - not sure where I will end up. But I do know that wherever I do end up, I bring alittle bit of Australia with me.

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