Climate change discussion

1,265 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, Keleth said:

But it does benefit the multinationals a lot more than it benefits normal people.That`s just a side affect which doesn`t matter to the multinationals and I`m sure they`d happily take away those benefits if it meant more money for them.

 

Companies go into business to make money.    People invest in companies to make money.    Consumers often buy products without knowing the impact of the purchase.  

 

Unfortunately, consumers continue to buy products which have a supply chain that involves practices and/or processes which violate human decency and / or environmental sustainability.    If you look at the early posts on this thread, the suggestion to reduce driving, avoid auto purchases and cut back on discretionary flights was met with extreme hostility by the climate doomsters no less. 

 

Macron of France is now threatening the Mercosur trade deal and blaming the Brazilian President for the fires.   Pure virtue signalling.  

 

https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/economy/macron-france-wont-back-eu-mercosur-deal-over-bolsonaros-climate-lies.phtml

 

 

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

Brazil is burning the amazon forest, so that they can planet palm oil seeds amongst other things, but mainly palm oil, which we in west buy along with almost all the rest of the world.

 

If we ( the west ) buy it, can you blame Brazil for growing it ? Or should we blame  ourselves for buying it and  creating a reason for them to produce even more. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/19/palm-oil-ingredient-biscuits-shampoo-environmental

 

When Macron condemns the burning of the Amazon, he should really be trying to stop the import of palm oil into the EU.

 

To be realistic, unless we accept that we need the Amazon to clean the air, and accept we have to pay Brazil to leave the forest in tact them then the de-forestation will continue as there is a plain old economic reason to do - driven partly by us.

 

It does not really matter who gets rich and by how much, even at the lowest level of pay, the people are still better off doing it then not working- and that's important to them - as least more important than the air we all breath.

 

If you look at the country's that pollute the most http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/pollution-by-country/ - its us - then we

have the cheek to tell other country's to stop chopping down the wood so the Amazon can help clean the pollution  air we make. Why don't we just stop polluting things in the first place

 

 

 

Which kind of backwards thinking is that?  Just because there is a demand for something that is not an excuse to destroy the world in order to supply that demand.   Then a pickpocketer is just doing the correct thing because there is demand for the smartphone he is stilling from you.

 

And then you end with the worst argument ever, whataboutism, what about us?  Maybe you should add WHAT ABOUT THE AFRICAN KIDS!!!1!! THINK ABOUT THEM!!1!!1!

 

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8 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Which kind of backwards thinking is that?  Just because there is a demand for something that is not an excuse to destroy the world in order to supply that demand.   Then a pickpocketer is just doing the correct thing because there is demand for the smartphone he is stilling from you.

 

And then you end with the worst argument ever, whataboutism, what about us?  Maybe you should add WHAT ABOUT THE AFRICAN KIDS!!!1!! THINK ABOUT THEM!!1!!1!

 

 

Last time I checked, pickpocketer is illegal, it is not illegal for BRAZIL to cut down its own trees - maybe you need a better example.

 

We in west want them to do, as we pay for them to do it.

 

not sure what AFRICAN KIDS, have to do with the BRIZIALAIN rain forrest

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

Last time I checked, pickpocketer is illegal, it is not illegal for BRAZIL to cut down its own trees - maybe you need a better example.

 

 

Actually deforestation in Brazil's rain forest was mostly illegal until Bolsonaro came in power, he is the one who slashed the Amazon Protection Laws.  Of course it still happened before, just like making pickpocketing illegal does not stop pickpocketing.

 

41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

We in west want them to do, as we pay for them to do it.

 

You mean, Brazil is in the East?

 

 

41 minutes ago, yesterday said:

not sure what AFRICAN KIDS, have to do with the BRIZIALAIN rain forrest

 

Run Forrest, Run.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

 

Actually deforestation in Brazil's rain forest was mostly illegal until Bolsonaro came in power, he is the one who slashed the Amazon Protection Laws.  Of course it still happened before, just like making pickpocketing illegal does not stop pickpocketing.

 

Sure, but its up to their legal process to decide whats illegal and whats not and of course they can change their minds, we can advise - but its not fair to tell them what to do. Sure we can tell BRAZIL what to do, and they will probably listen, but  how are you going to tell TRUMP to stop polluting

 

Just because the rich nations, in the west have polluted the land  and destroyed their forests, it do not mean that BRAZIL cannot either ( although I do not want that ). Maybe we in the west should reduce our pollution, before going around the world telling other poorer country's  its wrong to pollute / de-forest.

 

Would you reduce your life style to help save the planet ?, or is it the other parts of the world should reduce and save forests.

 

 

 

 

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Something to note: not only Brazil " owns " the Amazon..there are neighbouring countries affected who " own " parts of the Amazon.. Haven´t had time to check out their reactions. 

I actually remember from my time in Brazil in the 70s, by the way, there were all kinds of comments by both Brazilian nationalists and left wingers that criticizing only Brazil re the Amazon  was " imperialist. " Maybe very 70s.

 

But jeez...this destruction of the environment is everywhere. What are we all leaving our kids, grandkids and future generations as a whole? Very sad and frightening.

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10 hours ago, john g. said:

But jeez...this destruction of the environment is everywhere. What are we all leaving our kids, grandkids and future generations as a whole? Very sad and frightening.

 

There are more wildfires burning in Angola and Congo than in Brazil.   It almost seems like the outrage over the Amazon fires is environmental agitprop.   

 

https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/more-fires-now-burning-in-angola-congo-than-amazon-maps

 

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/2016/fires-in-angola-zambia-democratic-republic-of-the-congo

 

The stories about the Amazon fires will produce a lot of hand wringing on this board, but nobody will make serious lifestyle changes, e.g. stop relying on an automobile for convenience if public transport is a viable option.   

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1 hour ago, balticus said:

There are more wildfires burning in Angola and Congo than in Brazil.   It almost seems like the outrage over the Amazon fires is environmental agitprop.   

 

Winner of today's prize for whataboutism. It's possible to be outraged by what is happening in both countries, unless your moral compass is skewed by ideological sympathy for Bolsonaro.

 

1 hour ago, balticus said:

nobody will make serious lifestyle changes, e.g. stop relying on an automobile for convenience if public transport is a viable option.   

 

Really? When we moved back to Germany from the UK we chose not to buy a car and use public transport / bicycle. Not a difficult choice in Berlin, granted. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, john_b said:

 

Winner of today's prize for whataboutism. It's possible to be outraged by what is happening in both countries, unless your moral compass is skewed by ideological sympathy for Bolsonaro.

 

 

Really? When we moved back to Germany from the UK we chose not to buy a car and use public transport / bicycle. Not a difficult choice in Berlin, granted. 

 

 

 

Nor in Frankfurt. And I bet a whole lot of people could do this too, and get fitter and less stressed.And richer, I remember car insurance.

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On 8/24/2019, 9:12:43, john_b said:

 

Winner of today's prize for whataboutism. It's possible to be outraged by what is happening in both countries, unless your moral compass is skewed by ideological sympathy for Bolsonaro.

 

It is programmed outrage.  Read a less emotional news site.   I recommend Reuters and i cannot remember the last time i became outraged reading it. 

 

ETA:   there are a few fairly active posters on the TT political threads whose main thesis seems to be that the world is completely f***ed because of a headline they skimmed over 10 minutes ago.   They should get out from behind the keyboard and try to enjoy life a bit.  

 

Ideological sympathy for Bolsonaro?    That's hilarious.   :lol:

 

Quote

Really? When we moved back to Germany from the UK we chose not to buy a car and use public transport / bicycle. Not a difficult choice in Berlin, granted. 

 

Read the earlier pages of this thread and you will note that the people complaining the loudest about climate change's supposedly existential threat to human life  also refuse to make any personal lifestyle changes which would lower their carbon footprint. 

 

Some of the same people engaging in the hand wringing over the Amazon, have dubbed the appeal to stop driving in favor of public transport, "fascist".    

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Everyone else is an emotionally incontinent hand wringer, whereas you're a cool, clear thinker deconstructing "programmed outrage". 

 

Yeah, right. Lighten up, chum.

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46 minutes ago, john_b said:

Everyone else is an emotionally incontinent hand wringer, whereas you're a cool, clear thinker deconstructing "programmed outrage". 

 

Yeah, right. Lighten up, chum.

If you want to be outraged, that is your choice.   And it is a choice. 

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44 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

FWIW, I don't have a car not that I think it's anybody's business.

 

You are not insisting that everyone agree to your vision of climate change doom.  

 

It is the hypocrisy/virtue signalling rather than car ownership which is the target of criticism.   

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3 minutes ago, balticus said:

Everybody just needs to calm down, right?

 

Alt-bicus, seen recently:

5d626df9e107c_bd35823f0603dcbfa202852e47

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Just now, El Jeffo said:

Everybody just needs to calm down, right?

 

You are beginning to catch on.

 

It is a nice day.  Hope you enjoy the sun and fresh air and relax.  

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Bullshit propagandist says what?

 

Just a refresher of the World According to Alt-Bicus:

 

Horrible relationship:

5d626f179507f_gettyimages-624081422-1-1.

 

Best relationship evar:

5d626f68abe87_9c6v54rg_trump-merkel_625x

 

 

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3 hours ago, balticus said:

If you want to be outraged, that is your choice.   And it is a choice. 

 

Just as you choose to be pompous.  Relax, old man.

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11 hours ago, balticus said:

 

 

 

Read the earlier pages of this thread and you will note that the people complaining the loudest about climate change's supposedly existential threat to human life  also refuse to make any personal lifestyle changes which would lower their carbon footprint. 

 

Some of the same people engaging in the hand wringing over the Amazon, have dubbed the appeal to stop driving in favor of public transport, "fascist".    

Care to dig up some quotes as I`ve looked at the first 20 pages and found nothing like that.

 

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9 hours ago, Keleth said:

Care to dig up some quotes as I`ve looked at the first 20 pages and found nothing like that.

 

 

Do a search on suzuki and meat and you will see some serious entitlement.  Starts around page 39.  

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