Climate change discussion

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European heatwave: France hits record temperature of 45.1C

 

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France has hit its highest recorded temperature - 45.1C (113.2F) - amid a heatwave in Europe that has claimed several lives.

The new record was measured in the southern town of Villevieille. The previous record was 44.1C during a heatwave in 2003 that killed thousands.

Health Minister Agnès Buzyn has said "everyone is at risk" from the high temperatures.

France's weather service has issued an unprecedented red alert for four areas.

Those are all in the south, but most of the country remains on orange alert, the second highest level.

 

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On 6/27/2019, 7:43:07, john g. said:

I´ve done my bit for the planet today as well...

My Tesla only charges after 1am, so basically using energy that would be wasted otherwise...

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On 6/25/2019, 7:48:09, balticus said:

 

 

I would characterize it as a "feel bad" campaign.    Some people need things to worry about.   If you look at the people debating against you on this thread, they believe the world is f***ed and there is a constant stream of people who qualify as "twat of the day", "scum of the day", who seem to be oppressing them.    

 

 

 

Big people talk about ideas and small people talk about other people.

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June was hottest ever recorded on Earth, European satellite agency announces

 

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Data provided by the Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S), implemented by the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts on behalf of the EU, showed that the global average temperature for June 2019 was the highest on record for the month.

 

The data showed European average temperatures were more than 2C above normal and temperatures were 6-10C above normal over most of France, Germany and northern Spain during the final days of the month, according to C3S.

 
The global average temperature was about 0.1C higher than during the previous warmest June in 2016.

 

Experts have said climate change made last week’s record-breaking European heatwave at least five times as likely to happen, according to recent analysis.

 

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Heatwaves since the record 2003 heatwave:

 

2006:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_heat_wave

 

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Several records were broken. In the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Ireland and the United Kingdom, July 2006 was the warmest month since official measurements began.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Northern_Hemisphere_heat_waves

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitzewellen_in_Europa_2015

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_European_heat_wave

 

And now 2019.

 

 

Not that there is a trend or anything...

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"German official says CO2 charge should benefit the poor"

 

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BERLIN (AP) — Germany’s environment minister says plans to put a price on carbon should benefit people on low incomes and those who use less fossil fuel.

 

Svenja Schulze said Friday that a surcharge for carbon dioxide emissions from transport and home heating to encourage reduced use of fuel is necessary for Germany to meet its targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

 

Her office commissioned three independent expert studies, which all recommended redistributing the income generated.

The idea is to ensure low-earners and families aren’t unduly burdened by the measure, and they could end up with a net income gain.

 

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On 30/06/2019, 13:13:27, fraufruit said:

He really is a total dumbass, isn't he? He obviously believes the stupid comments that he makes. Time he retired to an old folks home...

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"Climate change: 12 years to save the planet? Make that 18 months"

 

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Do you remember the good old days when we had "12 years to save the planet"?

 

Now it seems, there's a growing consensus that the next 18 months will be critical in dealing with the global heating crisis, among other environmental challenges. 

 

Last year, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reported that to keep the rise in global temperatures below 1.5C this century, emissions of carbon dioxide would have to be cut by 45% by 2030. 

 

But today, observers recognise that the decisive, political steps to enable the cuts in carbon to take place will have to happen before the end of next year. 

 

The idea that 2020 is a firm deadline was eloquently addressed by one of the world's top climate scientists, speaking back in 2017.

 

"The climate math is brutally clear: While the world can't be healed within the next few years, it may be fatally wounded by negligence until 2020," said Hans Joachim Schellnhuber, founder and now director emeritus of the Potsdam Climate Institute.

 

The sense that the end of next year is the last chance saloon for climate change is becoming clearer all the time.

 

 

 

BBC

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What I´m wondering is whether it really makes sense to make sacrifices to reduce CO2 emissions if those who are emitting most of it don´t care ( think Trump, Russia, China, Africa etc.). What´s the point of creating unemployment and impoverishment if all we can hope for (in the absence of global harmonised efforts) is kicking the can down the road for a few more days?

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9 hours ago, jeba said:

What I´m wondering is whether it really makes sense to make sacrifices to reduce CO2 emissions if those who are emitting most of it don´t care ( think Trump, Russia, China, Africa etc.). What´s the point of creating unemployment and impoverishment if all we can hope for (in the absence of global harmonised efforts) is kicking the can down the road for a few more days?

 

Yea, fuck it, we're fucked anyway so we might as well go down in style. Hold my beer whilst I go and start a tire fire.

 

Honestly, this is the argument I hate the most. It seems so childlike that I'm amazed so many people genuinely have this view (my mother in law included). The list is long, but I'll have a stab off the top of my head:

 

1) Let's start with the fact that it's just plain wrong to begin with. Germany is the 6th biggest total emitter of CO2. It's per capita emissions are higher than China. Africa is not a country, but the first African country on the list is South Africa in 14th place. It's all here.

 

2) To use your "us and them" vernacular. "We" were the ones that started it. 200 odd years ago "we" industrialised, profited massively from it for two centuries and are now telling "them", the developing countries, to stop it. We have to lead by example.

 

3) I dunno, it's the right thing to do?

 

4) It makes economic sense. Sustainable, green energy is the future. Invest now, get ahead of the game. Become a world leader. Coal is not the future.

 

5) Two wrongs don't make a right...this is something we tell toddlers.

 

6) Reducing CO2 emissions will create unemployment and impoverishment? Really? Come off it. 

 

There are more.

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Europe heatwave: Germany registers highest temperature in its recorded history

 

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Germany has registered a temperature of 40.5C, the hottest in the country's recorded history.

Wednesday's high was confirmed by the country's weather service and comes as a heatwave sweeps across Europe, smashing records around the continent.

The record-breaking 40.5C temperature was recorded in Geilenkirchen, in Germany's North Rhine-Westphalia province.

 
That beats the previous record of 40.3C registered in the southern state of Bavaria in 2015.

DWD, the country's weather service, said new records could be made on Thursday.

 

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It's hotter here than it was yesterday, so it's possible that record has been broken again...

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21 hours ago, theGman said:

 

Yea, fuck it, we're fucked anyway so we might as well go down in style. Hold my beer whilst I go and start a tire fire.

 

Honestly, this is the argument I hate the most. It seems so childlike that I'm amazed so many people genuinely have this view (my mother in law included). The list is long, but I'll have a stab off the top of my head:

 

1) Let's start with the fact that it's just plain wrong to begin with. Germany is the 6th biggest total emitter of CO2. It's per capita emissions are higher than China. Africa is not a country, but the first African country on the list is South Africa in 14th place. It's all here.

 

2) To use your "us and them" vernacular. "We" were the ones that started it. 200 odd years ago "we" industrialised, profited massively from it for two centuries and are now telling "them", the developing countries, to stop it. We have to lead by example.

 

3) I dunno, it's the right thing to do?

 

4) It makes economic sense. Sustainable, green energy is the future. Invest now, get ahead of the game. Become a world leader. Coal is not the future.

 

5) Two wrongs don't make a right...this is something we tell toddlers.

 

6) Reducing CO2 emissions will create unemployment and impoverishment? Really? Come off it. 

 

There are more.

Which point of your list do you think is convincing? Calling deviating opinions chlidlike? Even your own source confirms that China alone emits about 3 times as much CO2 than all of the EU combined. And they´re still adding coal fired power stations. I´m all for going green - but only as part of a concerted effort. Germany´s share of total worldwise CO2 emmission in 2011 was 2.4% and I bet it´s lower by now. So what do you think how much of an effect going all green could have unless other main "culprits" are also doing the same? E. g. the Polish PM only recently declared that his country´s economy is based on coal and he refuses to try to change that. So there doesn´t seem to be the necessary level of commitment even within the EU. Let´s not even speak of Trump, Russia or China. Of course, we should try to reduce emissions - but not at all cost. That´s my childlike view at least (and I did put a photovoltaic facility on top of the roof of the house I´m renting).

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4 hours ago, jeba said:

Which point of your list do you think is convincing? Calling deviating opinions chlidlike?

 

Because it is childlike. Not least, is it literally the view I had when I was a child (and grew out of), but it's literally something a child and mother would say would say...

 

Child: "but mum, Jimmy is allowed to use his bike without a helmet"

Mother: "if Jimmy jumped off a cliff would you do that too?"

Child: But muuumm...etc etc etc

 

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Even your own source confirms that China alone emits about 3 times as much CO2 than all of the EU combined.

 

Yes, and they also have about 3 times the population of the EU. So they are not worse.

 

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And they´re still adding coal fired power stations.

 

They are a developing nation...can you blame them? The answer is constant discussion. But more importantly, to lead by example. An already rich nation like Germany needs to go green, hard and fast, and then sell China that technology as quick as possible. The time for pissing around is over.

 

If you don't care about the environment, then it even makes sense economically. Because you can bet your arse that China knows exactly where the future lies.

 

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I´m all for going green - but only as part of a concerted effort.

 

Such a cop out. What does that even mean? "Well I'm not doing anything until Jimmy does". I'll just about let you have that argument in the 90s. But not now.

 

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Germany´s share of total worldwise CO2 emmission in 2011 was 2.4% and I bet it´s lower by now.

 

Bad timing. Thanks to the "Atomkraft, nein danke" bollox and the subsequtn changing of the Atomgesetz Germany's carbon emissions actually went up in the following years. I think believe it has started coming down now, but for sure, Germany has not been leading by example in recent years.

 

chartoftheday_17582_megatonnes_of_co2_eq

 

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So what do you think how much of an effect going all green could have unless other main "culprits" are also doing the same? E. g. the Polish PM only recently declared that his country´s economy is based on coal and he refuses to try to change that. So there doesn´t seem to be the necessary level of commitment even within the EU. Let´s not even speak of Trump, Russia or China.

 

Very little...if they do not eventually follow. But you think that if the technology develops, and the UK, Germany, France, Canada etc etc all go green and base their economy on renewable energy, then the US and Poland will just continue to burn, burn, burn?

But what do you think will happen if we don't even try?

What have we got to lose?

 

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Of course, we should try to reduce emissions - but not at all cost.

 

We should, at all cost.

 

But really, there is no cost. At worst, the economy will stagnate for a bit as countries have to adapt to a new energy model. But's its nothing compared to the economic effect of climate change. Even oil companies know that you can't continue to sell oil if we're all dead.

 

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That´s my childlike view at least (and I did put a photovoltaic facility on top of the roof of the house I´m renting).

 

Fortunately, that view is mostly held by the older generation. As they get older, retire from power and die off then, hopefully, the next generation can start to move forward. I just hope it's not too late for my kids.

 

ETA: I don't want to sound aggressive, but I had this "discussion" with my mother-in-law recently and it is infuriating. Of course, people can have different opinions on a range of things and can have great discussions around them. But climate change is not an opinion. It's here, and we have to do something about it.

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53 minutes ago, theGman said:

Fortunately, that view is mostly held by the older generation. As they get older, retire from power and die off then, hopefully the next generation can start to move forward. I just hope it's not too late for my kids.

 

I am positively surprised as the new generation seem to be all in for it.

And the recent stream of extreme weather events is also convincing some of the old farts.

 

My best bet for a rapid reduction is the rapid adoption of electric cars and in energy storage systems. I think we will start seeing a global positive effect from it within 5 years.

It will reduce the three largest contributers to green house gas: transportation, industry and paradoxically electricity production.

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6 hours ago, theGman said:

Yes, and they also have about 3 times the population of the EU. So they are not worse.

That´s not the point. They point is that the less they (and others) commit to reducing emissions the less of an impact we can hope to achieve.

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

They are a developing nation...can you blame them? The answer is constant discussion. But more importantly, to lead by example

Again, it´s not about blaming. And leading by example isn´t likely to achieve much. What might be more efficient in my view is trying to give them financial incentives to e. g. at least not build new coal fired power stations. 1 Euro spent on paying them for going green might jave a bigger effect than 1 € spent on greening Germany. So it might make sense to use some money meant for greening Germany (and comparable countries) for that purpose.

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

Such a cop out. What does that even mean? "Well I'm not doing anything until Jimmy does".

It means e. g. that  an international contract becomes binding only once a certain minimum of countries signed up. Not exactly unheard of.

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

Bad timing. Thanks to the "Atomkraft, nein danke" bollox and the subsequtn changing of the Atomgesetz Germany's carbon emissions actually went up in the following years

According to your source it went up until 2013. In 2014 it was below the 2011 level already. And while I´m too lazy to research for data I´d guess it went further down after that year.

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

But you think that if the technology develops, and the UK, Germany, France, Canada etc etc all go green and base their economy on renewable energy, then the US and Poland will just continue to burn, burn, burn?

Exactly. Unless it makes more economical sense to go green than use carbons. Plus I´m not so sure about to which extent the ountries you named are prepared to make sacrifices for going green. Especially those which have oil and gas under their soil. Just look at the protests against phasing out coal in Germany by 2030.

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

We should, at all cost.

Even at the cost of jobs and consequent social social upheaval and right wing extremists rising to power? Not with my support!

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

But really, there is no cost. At worst, the economy will stagnate for a bit as countries

That´s wishful thinking. Just look at cities like Bochum or Gelsenkirchen to get an idea of what e. g. phasing out coal mining means. And it would be much more problematic in Eastern Germany or other economically lagging regions/countries. And what do you think will happen to  energy intensive industries if the cost of electricity in one country spikes too much ahead to that of competitors?

 

6 hours ago, theGman said:

Fortunately, that view is mostly held by the older generation. As they get older, retire from power and die off then, hopefully, the next generation can start to move forward.

That´s what I thought as well when I was young. On other topics though.

 

 

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