Climate change

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There's no debate as to global warming taking place. The debate is whether we have anything to do with it. On that the scientists are split right down the middle.

Yes, assuming you consider the "middle" to be around the 95% mark. It is utter rubbish to say that scientists are split. The vast majority of scientists working in that field now believe that global warming is caused by human activity.

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There's no debate as to global warming taking place. The debate is whether we have anything to do with it. On that the scientists are split right down the middle.

Uh, no scientists that are not attached to a political or commercial agenda pretty much agree that we are having a major influence on a process that may or may not be an underlying cause. Think of it this way, are we throwing gas on a fire or a lit match? In other words, is our contribution significant or really significant?

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Ah yes - a much better plan would be for 3rd world countries to sell their resources (and labour) very cheaply to large international companies. Then they could borrow large sums to buy the finished products back at hugely inflated prices. This way 3rd world countries can avoid messy industrialisation and maintain the status quo of poverty.

You never heard of the law of comparative advantage? Besides that, why would they borrow money to buy the finished products back? That's why they get paid. That's why the domestic governmnt taxes the international company.

 

 

I am a 3rd Worlder. Strange thing is that most of those dictators, wars and famines are a direct result of colonialisation which only came to an end a few decades ago (60s to 80s). Rwanda is a perfect example of a genocide resulting from a earlier colonial policy. The Tutsi minority were put in power by the Belgians post WWI as means to have Native government that was completely reliant on the colonial power. When the colonial power disappeared decades of ill feelings led to the worst genocide the continent had ever seen. This same policy was practiced by the Germans, Portugese, English, Spanish and Belgiums with varying results in Africa, S. America and Asia.

The minute the 3rd worlders stop blaming the colonialists for their problems the sooner they will come out of their miserable cycle of poverty. In case you didn't learn it at school, but Europeans also mowed each other down until as little as 60 odd years ago. They don't blame it on colonial policy. The Tutsis and Hutus and the rest of them were killing each other long before the Europeans came along. If the Africans would only learn to hold their governments accountable much in the same way that Europeans do then they might get somewhere, but instead they put up with corrupt dictators or even worse, vote them back in because they don't know any better. You're South African, you should know the story.

 

 

Famines (in 3rd world countries) to a large part, are the direct result of the implementation of a economic model not suited to an area. The result is that due to a currency system, land ownership, taxes etc. people can no longer exist on sub-sistence farming and are thus forced to plant a cash crop to make money. Often this cash crop is not sustainable and thus in 10 to 20 years famines result when the land is completely depleted.

I think some people will benefit from energy at affordable local prices that at least has some built in resistance to currency fluctuations. This can only happen if these countries produce a portion of their own energy as their currencies are usually very volatile. I am not saying that developing countries need make all the same mistakes made during the industrial revolution BUT selling their carbon points and providing trash dumps for 1st world waste is not a sustainable development plan.

Famines are due to the very lack of the implementation of the economic model you mention. Africans can't see past bringing up goats and cattle. They base their whole economy on a staple crop which in a continent ravaged by floods and famine is rather absurd. If they [the governments] educated the people they would be able to engage more value-added activities than mining and agriculture and therefore diversify the economy leading to less susceptibility to the wrath of nature. I don't know where you get your "cash crop" theory other than they have a good year and spend it all rather than saving for a rainy day. Famines are a result of bad planning and bad farming. The Transkei is a great example.

 

As for your last point, I agree with you. But that happens because the African governments get away with it, not because they're broke. They're a bunch of greedy assholes much like politicians everywhere except if they get caught in Europe they get kicked out.

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@ Ulysses - Damn, now I have to re-read all the crap I wrote SIX weeks ago to see if I still agree with myself...

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The real question is:

 

Why the fuck aren't we intentionally terraforming the earth on a greater scale to suit us? A couple of adjustable solar shades at a Lagrange point between the Earth and the sun would be a fine start.

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Yeah, it is a myth, created by a bunch of lib "scientists" in order to subvert the government and get funding to sustain themselves.

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global warming is a myth, same as claim that smoking is bad for you...

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Global warming is a myth to be sure.

A bit of warmth hurn no one anyway.!

Comeon people, get a grip.

It is spreading unnecessary fear and wasting precious money!

Stop it!

Truth.

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I would side with the thought that global warming is mostly hysteria. Humans like to have something to worry about now we aint got a god no more

 

dont believe me?

 

So where's acid rain these days?

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Let me get straight to the point here . I am neither a proponent nor a critic against global warming.

But the "evidence" put forth by the scientists seem to have serious loopholes. Now, when the credibility of the evidence is at stake, you lose the case.

 

 

global warming is a myth, same as claim that smoking is bad for you...

:D . Interesting comparison! :D

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I read the Michael Crichton book mentioned in the first post, and remember that the main argument he used was that reliable temperature readings haven't been recorded long enough to prove global warming. Thing is, temperature records aren't necessary, as apparently, scientists can get average temperatures on the poles by drilling down into the icecaps and measuring the melt and CO2 levels of the layers.

Anyway, as stated by many already, enough scientists concur on this to blow Michael Crichton's argument out the window.

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acid rain

 

holes in the ozone

 

sub - saharan population explosion leading to world ending etc etc

 

...all these things were told to us as being major problems when I was at school, but when do you ever really hear about them now?

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I would side with the thought that global warming is mostly hysteria. Humans like to have something to worry about now we aint got a god no more

dont believe me?

 

So where's acid rain these days?

 

acid rain

 

holes in the ozone

 

sub - saharan population explosion leading to world ending etc etc

...all these things were told to us as being major problems when I was at school, but when do you ever really hear about them now?

Acid rain went of the agenda cos industrialised nations took action and cleaned up their acts reducing dioxins etc.

 

Where is acid rain now ??

Siberia apparently:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6528853.stm

China

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5290236.stm

and Asia generally:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6449059.stm

 

See that second one also for the Ozone layer stuff. So wahts this - the problems "went away" - as in out of our news- cos we took them serisouly and took action to fix them - at least in the Western world and in western news.

 

But no - keep going on believing like a mindless gorms that global warning is a big conspiracy and I'm sure someelse will fix it for you and your ever so important little world view will reamined undistrubed and you can continue living in denial all you want. that or civilisation will end. but you know like, whatever

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I didnt say that acid rain never existed, but as far as I remember we were bombarded with images of it daily, trees dying etc, same with the ozone hole, Im sure its still there, and technically it must still be getting bigger right? but no one talks about it any more, as with sub-saharan population explosion

 

none of these things are 'fixed', they've just been neatly forgotten by people as they move onto their next fix of self- flagellation

 

none of these things was false, my point is more about mankind's cyclical hysteria over various subjects.

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Global warming is a myth to be sure.

So you decide that something with mountains of evidence to back it up is a myth, whereas your beliefs which have zero evidence to back it up is the Truth? Yeah, makes sense

 

A bit of warmth hurn no one anyway.!

Come to NZ, lie in the sun for 15 minutes and then you tell me if a little warmth never hurt anyone.

 

It is spreading unnecessary fear and wasting precious money!

Are you talking about the church?

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same with the ozone hole, Im sure its still there, and technically it must still be getting bigger right? but no one talks about it any more

Maybe not in the northern hemisphere where this isn't an issue, but it's still an issue in the southern hemisphere and it is still talked about.

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