Regrets on making a permanent move to Germany

[martinchariots 5]

I've only been here 7 months so perhaps I am not suitably qualified to say something here. However my German wife lived in UK for 3 1/2 years before we came here so we have both had some experience of 'homesickness'. As some of the previous contributors indicated, we try to mix & match - so throwing yourself 100% into integration with no english speaking influences is perhaps like smoking 40 a day 1 day then nothing thereafter, just stopping completely. So I try to integrate but also get an english 'fix' sometimes - I'm doing a German language course which is helping a lot. But of course over the last few years since I've been coming (& now living) in Germany I've had my fair share of bewildered expressions at my (english) humour. We have access to english TV by satellite as I really miss the Rugby, & I have to say I'm also pleased to find this site which I'm new to.

 

Don't let it beat you (easy for me to say you might answer), I think there are lots of positives over here & its not like we're on the other side of the world - UK is not far away. Try to get back reasonably regularly I think that will help.

[TheMoth 14]

 

Heck, if you from the UK, you can fly home for a weekend now and then, not possible for many of us.

That is what I always envied as its a bit more difficult North Americans not to mention Aussies, Kiwis and others.

[Carm 74]

I make it home to Canada about every 18months, cannot afford it otherwise.

[Chicago 23]

 

Does anyone regret making a permanent move to Germany?

 

I moved here - for love - two years ago, full of enthusiasm and determination to integrate (learn the language etc). Unfortunately, whilst there is so much I like about life here in Germany, I can't say that I'm at all happy - this in spite of a wonderful partner, whom I love dearly. I've tried hard, but learning the language has proved far more difficult than I'd anticipated, especially since I live with a German! - I miss being able to communicate naturally with people. I never imagined I'd miss anything about life in the UK but I do - the TV, the 'different' sense of humour, friends with whom I used to have 'real' conversations, not feeling self-conscious in life's everyday procedures.

 

I feel quite depressed a lot of the time and I'm worried that my relationship will suffer - there are already a few cracks appearing.

first, I would like to point out that most of the previous advice comes from a self-selecting group (those who have chosen to stay in germany for the long term). Take their advice if you will really, truely, deeply commit to being in the relationship and in germany. People have done amazing things for love. And their advice / experiences can be very valuable to you.

 

At the same time, you will not be able to get much advice from the other self-selecting group (those who moved to germany, worked hard to learn the language and to intergrate, but then decided to leave), even though they might be greater in number. Anyway, I am in this group; and I was in a similar situation to you (minus the partner). And from my experience, leaving germany was a good decision. Had I stayed much longer, I would have truely regretted going there in the first place (which I do not) and would have done permanent, irrepairable damage to my relationships, career, and opinion of germany and the people who live there. I still have a lot of work to do to repair the damage done, make-up for lost opportunities, catch-up to my career peer group, re-build relationships; but having been nearly 3 years in germany put me very close to the point of "gone too far". (and of course, I did meet some wonderful people in germany and they will continue to be part of my life.) Still, perhaps the advice you need is: get out. leave while you can. cut your losses now. run as fast as you can. life is too short to be so miserable and cut off from the world. you can always go back as a tourist.

 

softer advice would be: travel often to non-german places. move to a neutral country (Holland? Belgium?) with your beau.

 

but again, if you want to commit to the relationship, then take the advice of the first group. either way, take care and good luck.

[UVAexpat 4]

Hi Cruiser,

 

I read your message, and my heart goes out to you. I was in the same situation by late 2001.

 

My hubby is from Hamburg (yea!) and we had been together for 9 yrs. before we tried the European dream earlier that year. I thought it would be a piece of cake, my naive American brain said, oh the Europeans are not THAT much different than the US are they? (Of course several other factors came into play: still having a senior in high school back in PA who lived with her Dad, all family on East Coast). I took German in high school and college, so I did know some of the language. But I was really unprepared for the culture shock and isolation that I felt in Munich. Living in the city was difficult for me, we came from huge lovely old Victorian house near Philly, to a small 2 bd/2 bath 2nd floor condo. In Munich I was home, no working permit, no friends (lack of ambition on my part to make any friends) and going quite batshit most of the time, I was flying to the states every 8 wks, and each time it got harder to come back to Germany. I developed a bad attitude as the fall weather hit (rain and gray) and by Xmas, I had fantasies of escaping the gulag and flying home. One day in January 2002, I announced to my husband (he knew I was unhappy) that I was returning to the US. He was very concerned and upset, naturally. I left on Jan 24th and stayed with my mom for about a month before deciding to move south where we had lived previously for several years. It was a lonely year waiting for my hubby to find a job in the US, but we survived the physical separation.

 

After we were together again, to make a long story short, I found out that my depression and unhappiness were caused by a common medical condition (thyroid imbalance) and once on medication my attitude changed 180 degrees. Then I started thinking about the opportunity that I gave up, and what I would do different if I had the chance to do it again. So here are my humble suggestions:

 

1. Learn the language, and learn it well. This is the biggest barrier to integration for outsiders. Without the language capacity, you cannot form meaningful friendships and understand the nuances of the German mind. Find and make friends with a German and make a stammtisch or language practice session once a week. Help that person improve their English. My neighbor across the street comes for tea once a week and we chat for a couple of hours, intermittently in English and German. I also took an intensive course at the Goethe Institute which helped to jump start my rusty German, next month I will most likely take my second intensive. The self-consciousness stage that you mentioned will not go away until you can take on a German 'skin. ' IOW, think like a German. But you really need to understand the language and customs to do this. I am much more comfortable this time and don't second guess myself. I still get nervous on the phone, but I explain that I am learning German and it takes the onus off of being perfect.

 

2. Seek out friends from your own culture, get together regularly and do the things that made you happy back home to the extent that you can. No, Germany is not like the UK or the US, I found that out early. But this time around I made it a point to find things about the country and the culture that I like, instead of dwelling on the negative.

 

3. Join an expat group or find a hobby that you can continue or develop in Germany. Hobbies groups really have no cultural boundries, all members are united by a singular passion. I am thinking of photography for example. We have a photography group in Munich and there are a mix of many nationalities in the group, and the one thing that unites us is our love of pictures, cameras, technique building, photo editing, etc.

 

4. Watch TV in your own language. Yes, I know this goes against the rules of what most people would say, immerse, immerse! But you need something that is familiar to you. We bought a SlingBox and a TiVO over Xmas and are very happily watching American TV everyday. I still continue to practice my German, perhaps watching US TV will slow my progress a little, but I am very happy to be watching my favorite TV shows, and the slice of home is well worth the price! I get to see how screwed up US politics are on a daily basis, and that makes me love Europe even more!

 

5. There are some good books out there about integrating as an Expat, "Expert Expat" is the one that I read after I realized my blunder, and it has some great suggestion beyond what I have listed about how to beat the homesickness. You can find it on Amazon.

 

Of course, having a complete arsehole for a President and wanting to get away again from the evil influence has made it easy to distance myself from the USA at present. My children are now young adults and on their own, living their own lives, so I don't have the guilt that I did previously about jumping ship on my youngest daughter. They come over and spend part of the summers with us (to the extend that their measley US vacation allowances permit). I also can make it 3 or 4 mos. without the need to fly home, which is an encouraging sign. And I truly love my house and where I am at in Germany. So much for the better this time around. The mild winter has helped.

 

I do hope that you find a way to adjust, feeling like a fish out of water is no fun and sometimes you just have to wade through it, or find the things you need to change to make yourself happy again. Best of luck...many of us been there. -UVAExpat

[Ciars 12]

 

softer advice would be: travel often to non-german places. move to a neutral country (Holland? Belgium?) with your beau.

This made me laugh! I moved to Belgium from Germany, thinking something along those lines - belgium is a 'neutral' country...

 

Dont be fooled!! Belgium has a very unique personality!! Logic does not prevail and if you think the burocracy in DE is bad, you will need to do a couple of courses in meditation and/or anger management to cope with the system here!

 

I am in the first bunch that Chicago refers to, those that like Germany and have chosen to make it home. I will move back to Freiburg in March and am very much looking forward to it. For me, living in Germany feels natural and I feel like myself there. Not to say home is shite or anything, because it certainly is not, but its horses for courses. I also dont see it as a permanent move, more 'open-end'. Im just going to see where it takes me.

[sky_hoc 1]

 

Heck, if you from the UK, you can fly home for a weekend now and then, not possible for many of us.

 

That is what I always envied as its a bit more difficult North Americans not to mention Aussies, Kiwis and others.

I totally agree with this.. Especially as I'm from Sydney..

 

I thought I wanted to go home, actually I was planning on leaving on the 17th Jan. But then I spent 4 weeks travelling parts of europe, got to the UK and decided I wanted to return to Munich, mad I know but theres something about the place..

 

I spent 2 months before christmas desperatly homesick, but I guess that has eased... tho no doubt it will be back..

 

My advice.. Get out meet people, try and enjoy your time here.. and a little saying I keep telling myself..

'The grass is always greener on the other side'.

[Verwirrt 3]

here is something especially for you Americans that get caught in situations "having to explain current political policies":

 

you know how everything in Germany is explained by a German "Dies ist Deutschland"...this one phrase seems to let everything illogical, beurocratic, backwards, etc. off the hook. Germans dont even challenge their own society for a better tomorrow, but think it is their duty to challenge everyone else's.

 

so next time some wannabe intellect is trying to pull you into a conversation based upon what they have read from Michael Moore...just smile and say "das ist Amerika, PUNKT"

[boomtown_rat 629]

living in a 'neutral' country can be a good idea though - that way both partners are basically in the same situation - rather than one being in the other ones home country. Obviously that involves finding work etc in that neutral country so its not without its logistical problems

[germanyshelley 10]

i can certainly relate...i also moved here "for love" (man that sounds cheesy when you say it out loud..haha) almost a year ago and still find it hard. but i've decided that i have just 2 choices: (1) suck it up, stop complaining, and make a conscious effort to be happy, or (2) go home. it's that simple. would i be happier at home in the great U.S. of A without my wonderful German boyfriend...no. so i might as well make the most of it here.

 

i just wish there were a Toytown presence here in Regensburg!! sounds like it helps alot!!

 

p.s. i also have to deal with my boyfriend's bayerisch family...and i can't understand a word they say...which sucks, because i just have to sit there like a lump on a log. and last week his mother told him not to let me do his laundry anymore, because his whites aren't white anymore. grrrrr...

[don_riina 7,406]

 

p.s. i also have to deal with my boyfriend's bayerisch family...and i can't understand a word they say...which sucks

No. You are way wrong. It's fantastic when you don't understand a word. Ignorance is bliss as they say. It's when you do understand that problems start, becuase you have to listen to their bullshit opinions on stuff, and they try to engage you in conversation. Nasty.

[HEM 11,163]

 

i just wish there were a Toytown presence here in Regensburg!! sounds like it helps alot!!

I thought Regensburg looked nice (I admit I only saw it from a few thousand feet up...)

 

 

p.s. i also have to deal with my boyfriend's bayerisch family...and i can't understand a word they say...which sucks, because i just have to sit there like a lump on a log. and last week his mother told him not to let me do his laundry anymore, because his whites aren't white anymore. grrrrr...

Life must be easier up North! My parents-in-law live on the North sea coast about 1.5 hrs drive away.

No issues, no interferring & they like coming over at Christmas & eating UK-style turkey & have

even got used to the Christmas pudding...

 

Father-in-law used to be with the local fuzz - was the police chief of the town when he retired 20 years ago...

 

Our respective parents first met at our Polterabend...

[germanyshelley 10]

oh geez...i don't even want to think about when our parents meet for the first time...talk about awkward!

 

my favorite quote from my father, when i told him i was moving to germany, was..."Why would you want to go there? Just go to Vegas for the weekend...that'll get it out of your system."

 

hahaha

[Guest]

 

i can certainly relate...i also moved here "for love" (man that sounds cheesy when you say it out loud..haha) almost a year ago and still find it hard. but i've decided that i have just 2 choices: (1) suck it up, stop complaining, and make a conscious effort to be happy, or (2) go home. it's that simple. would i be happier at home in the great U.S. of A without my wonderful German boyfriend...no. so i might as well make the most of it here.

 

i just wish there were a Toytown presence here in Regensburg!! sounds like it helps alot!!

 

p.s. i also have to deal with my boyfriend's bayerisch family...and i can't understand a word they say...which sucks, because i just have to sit there like a lump on a log. and last week his mother told him not to let me do his laundry anymore, because his whites aren't white anymore. grrrrr...

I'm sure I saw 'Regensburg' as a location for other people on here... maybe y'all just don't know about each other yet?

 

Have you considered getting a Bayern Ticket and coming down to Munich for (for instance) some of the weekend Toytown meetups?

 

I'm starting to understand the in-laws when they start to speak Bayerisch --like when all my father-in-law's family came over while we were visiting last month... oy. It was a bit overloading, still.

(my in-laws live out in a small village N/NE of Regensburg)

[germanyshelley 10]

mine too...they're from Cham. fun place <_<

[Guest]

My mother-in-law is originally from a little village near Cham. They live up near Schwandorf now, though.

[Verwirrt 3]

my in-laws are from Schwerin in Mecklenberg...and odd thing is: they have so many things in common with my own parents. interest, hobbies, how they relate to one another, humour (yes that is right, humour) and zest for life.

 

my father in-law works as the general secretariate for the minister of interior..so he basically writes bills for laws in germany and the eu. but he is the most laid-back, down to earth guy...he even reminds people on first meeing him (in social situations) its "peter" not "herr" and when you say "Sie" (in german, of course) he is turning to look for his father. They are very cool. my parents love them to death and i enjoy spending time with them, as peers. though, i do think my wife and her brother are not right out jealous, but a little envious that they will always be the child and their significant others will be friends.

[Hutcho 2,227]

 

Here's what you do: As soon as they start on that path, chug your beer. Then look down at your empty glass and say, "Well, I seem to need another. Can I get you one while I am up?" Stand up (or move in some way) as you say this and then pretend to ask other people around you. Go directly to the bar, but take your time getting there. Get the order, then when you bring back their beer say, "Oops found someone I need to talk to. But I'll be right back." It might cost you a few euros, but its worth it!

Man, remind me to start hassling you about American politics next time I see you. Free beer for a few minutes of arguing, nice work!

[Guest]

 

p.s. i also have to deal with my boyfriend's bayerisch family...and i can't understand a word they say...which sucks, because i just have to sit there like a lump on a log. and last week his mother told him not to let me do his laundry anymore, because his whites aren't white anymore. grrrrr...

Just curious, are you and your boyfriend in your early twenties or so? Coz it sounds like his mother is overbearing (like, mind your own business, will you?...) and your BF needs to learn to keep her in check... (I know, not easy this one... not for him if he has to learn it yet and not for you because nosy in-laws (or parents in that matter when one has them) bring unecessary stress to any relationship...)

[germanyshelley 10]

we're in our "late" twenties...but man, am i surprised at the level of involvement with these bayerisch families. i mean, i'm all for family activities...but every weekend? seriously? and i can't stand everyone all up in my business! and for heaven's sake...my boyfriend still takes his laundry to his mother every couple of weeks...and when we're there, she'll actually come into our room to pick his clothes up off of the floor (something that, on principal, i refuse to do). i also get the impression that she thinks i'm deficient in some way because i choose not to cook and clean like a maniac.

 

i've told my boyfriend time and again that, while i love him, i will NEVER be that kind of wife or mother!!

 

have any of you had a similar experience with a bayerisch mother-in-law? she's sweet as can be, and don't get the wrong impression, i'm very fond of her...but come on lady...ever heard of the women's movement?! (i've never once seen my boyfriend's father lift a finger around that house)