Pedestrians and turning right on a green light

92 posts in this topic

here is the comprehensive research of safety of right turn on red:

​I suspect sosarx and were also taking at cross-purposes, but turning right on RED definitely isn't the issue, it's turning right on GREEN. i.e. pedestrians/cyclists going straight ahead have green, and so do vehicles turning right across their path.

The reason you can't exclude cyclists from the statistics is that, at least in Bavaria, cyclists and pedestrians share the same traffic light at most junctions. The issues therefore apply equally to both.

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Nope. Cyclists have to follow the traffic light for cars when there is no specific traffic light for bycicles. It has been like this for some time already. In former time there had to follow the pedestrian traffic light.

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Wouldnt it just be simpler to try and teach common sense and self preservation to the cyclists?

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@Krieg: ​In Munich cyclists still have to follow the pedestrian light. But this is a minor technicality; whichever light you obey, "green" still doesn't mean "safe".

Kompliziert wird es besonders dort, wo ein Radweg neben einem Gehweg verläuft - und noch keine solche Fahrradampel eingerichtet ist. Das ist laut KVR-Sprecherin Schlegel an stadtweit etwa 50 Ampeln der Fall. Dort muss sich der Radler bis Ende 2016 weiter am Signal für Fußgänger orientieren, danach an der Kfz-Ampel.

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Jein. That would be the exception to the general rule, a bicycle on a mandatory bicycle path with no bicycle traffic light has to follow the pedestrian light when the bicycle path is besides a pedestrian path (until 2016). As stated in your copy/paste there are about 50 cases like that in Munich.

For all other cases is as I mentioned since 2012 or 2013. (same time bicycles were allowed to turn left in a big intersection following the car's way instead of having to do an external inverted L shape).
 

Edit after your ninja edit:  It is not just a "technicality", it is actually a big deal, making the cyclists follow the cars traffic light was a big mistake because now they do not have the start ahead they had when they could follow the pedestrian light.

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No, but as the pedestrian light turns red long before the car light does, it gives a bigger window of time in which a cyclist is permitted to cross.

I only meant "technicality" within the confines of the specific issue under discussion in this thread.

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Another horrible accident today in Berlin, this time a pedestrian run over yet again by a lorry turning right, the unfortunate woman has life threatening injuries. In the report witnesses said that both the Lorry and the pedestrian had green. So yes there is the fault in my opinion, change the sequencing of the traffic lights and most of these accidents will no longer occur. Or just walk across the street when nothing's coming, makes more sense.

 

 

 

 

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There is a light near my home where when you are waiting you clearly see the light for the cars and pedestrians turning green at the same time. It's the same in my home country so it's not a problem for me. If you are turning you have to make sure nothing is in your way. Like a person for example. And even if you did have the right of way, you definitely don't want to hit a person just to prove your point. Likewise pedestrians should watch out too even if they have the right of way. Between a car and a pedestrian you know who will have the worse outcome. 

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Some great advice here in this post.

In the unfortunate case of a collision between pedestrian and cyclist, Motorcycles also fall into the below info, always have the law on their side no matter what anyone says here. According to my lawyer buddy, if you hit pedestrian or cyclists you automatically lose your license until Police can determine who is at fault, what happened, this can take weeks. Most of the time, if not all, its the vehicle operators fault and your going pay a hefty fine, points in Flensburg (another topic that people new to D have difficulty understanding) and possibly lose your driving permit for a while. Pedestrians always have the right of way in D even if they are crossing illegally, Jay-Walking/crossing where they should not.

 

Rechts-Vor-Links Rule, Priority to the Right is a right-of-way system, in which the driver of a vehicle is required to give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections, not all, where it is clearly stated or in 30Km zones, down-town areas, again must be clearly stated. This a great rule to keep vehicle motorist from speeding in residential areas also keeps them vigilant while driving.

 

Here’s a link to the Automobile Club of Germany, ADAC, for all traffic signs, Verkehrszeichen und Verkehrseinrichtungen, here in D.

https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/fi_verkehrszeichen_engl_infobr_0915_30482.pdf

 

 

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opps...

 

In the unfortunate case of a collision between a vehicle and a pedestrian or cyclist...

 

ALSO if you plan on staying and driving in D get to know the traffic signs, which there are way way too many and can be confusing even for ze Germans, it'll save you allot of time and money.

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There is a really dangerous 4 way intersection in my neighbourhood. The primary axis is the Haupstrasse. The problem is traffic (specifically LKWs) wanting to turn left (from the Hauptstrasse) through a break in the oncoming traffic at the intersection. There is a amber flashing left arrow for them while the pedestrian crossing at the top of the connecting street has a green. The major issue is pedestrians, scooters and bikes (I know the latter should be using the other side of the street) trying to cross 'late' from the same side as the LKW is coming from.

 

What causes the problem is that because the left-turning drivers can turn through a gap, they tend to make hasty decisions and accelerate when a gap presents itself, right into the pedestrian crossing.

 

Also, as the traffic moves forward from the stop line when the amber arrow appears - there is no way to make eye contact with the first driver. This can be done when they are stopped on red at the stop line and the pedestrian is already at the crossing.

 

Is there any point contacting the Stadt about this? Ask for a delay in the Amber Arrow appearing? Has anyone successfully changed traffic light timings like this? It's got to the stage were I won't cross even on green if  I come late to the junction and there is traffic waiting to turn. I have seen others though have near misses.

 

Thanks for any advice. I'm in NRW by the way.

 

 

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On 5.1.2007, 19:38:30, jayhay said:

 

Oh, do I hate how they do this in Germany.

 

But I guess that means waiting intervals for cars are shorter and oftentimes (especially off-peak and during the night) there's noone on the crossing so you can turn freely. On the other side, if pedestrians had a green light for themselves only - you would still be stuck on red light even if there weren't any pedestrians.

 

I guess that is the main reasoning behind this decision (it is so also in my non-EU SE-homeland and neighboring countries).

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