Small claims courts in Germany

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Having a problem with a motorcycle I purchased (again) but this time from a Triumph vertragshändler.

 

After many emails / promises / and contradictory excuses I gave them (in writing via snail . recorded delivery) until yesterday to come up with proposals for repairs.

 

No reply received so I was about to follow the procedures listed so wonderfully here but then thought, I haven't as yet listed a complete, fixed monetary amount.

 

Would the advice of my fellow all knowing TTers 

  • be to do that first, giving my bank account etc. If so, per "einschreiben" or would email suffice?
  • get the work needed done first and use the bill or apply for costs based on part prices and verbally given quote from my local mechanic for fitting.

 

(I will be seeing a lawyer eventually (free consultation first via ADAC) but if I can make sure I've done as much as I can first it would reduce my cost/risks)

 

 

 

For interested parties I will detail the problem which is nowt really to do with the question.

 

Bought bike after seeing advert on mobile.de (Triumph ST 655i). Was listed with accessories "heated grips" and a "Scottoiler" (brand name for a gadget that automatically lubes the chain)

 

On the way home noticed one of the grips didn't work. Wrote to them ... they replied with "Leider können wir nicht auf Zubehör gewährleisten" Of course this isn't true. When I sent them the text I got from the ADAC they agreed to replace the broken heat grip. (Saying "everything worked when it left them")

I then went to fill the "Scottoiler" with oil. When I dig it out from where it was hidden... was a piece of S++T and even when full didn't work! . Wrote to the manufacturer of Scottoiler who said it was not a Scottolier!

Emailed the vertragshändler. Their reply this time "They didn't check any of the accessories". and "mistakes and typing errors "Vorbehalten". (Doesn't wash in court either according to the ADAC)

 

I wrote directly to Triumph Germany. They spoke to the handler and had the excuse "They told me all that wasn't working when I bought it!"

 

So these accessories worked ... although they hadn't checked them ... and they told me they weren't working before I bought it!

 

Total cost will be 379,89 euros

 

Many thanks guys (now I will get ready to delete the double post... unless it's fixed!)

 

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Hi. I have a claim against me from Amtsgericht. If I argue against it, what would happen? The lawyer disagreed to help me due to such a small claim (200 eu). If I lose would I have to pay anything?

And if I admit the claim, but are not able to pay (I am registered as arbeitslos), would this affect my schufa score? 

Could anyone reply? I would be thankful.

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At a guess, you would have to pay the €200 and the lawyer fees of whoever is claiming against you.

I would guess that if you make arrangements to pay in installments, there would be nothing in your Schufa.

 

Making arrangements to pay in installments before actually going to court is obviously the cheapest option if you know that you owe this person €200. Just sayin'...

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It's a small claims court, so anyone can make a claim without a lawyer (turns out the person himself is a lawyer). Well, the person already went to court, so I doubt I can do anything anymore. Or can I?

The two options is to admit and pay (but I am arbeitslos and have no income whatsoever). I am not able to pay in installments either. So what would happen in that case? 

The other option would be to argue with the claim (but seems like it's impossible to win if you don't have a good lawyer). I am very confused. 

 

 

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Was it a Mahnverfahren? There isn't really a small claims court in Germany like in some US states where each side says his/her piece and then a judge decides. The Mahnverfahren does not require that the claimant prove his case.  If you don't object to the Mahnverfahren (you have two weeks) because you actually do owe the claimant then the next step for the claimant if you refuse to pay is to get the paperwork for a bailiff to try and collect the money owed (Vollstreckungsbescheid).  This could mean taking your TV, computer or whatever the bailiff decides is worth the amount owed plus the fees with certain restrictions on what they can take.  It could go either way, the person could take it further or let it lie. Many people use the Mahnverfahren as a kind of super warning to get payment.  But it still requires for them to spend more money to collect it and as you say if you don't have anything then it could be difficult for them.

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Maybe you can agree a small amount to pay, in instalments.? Even Euro 25 a month? But, as above said, once it goes  to a bailiff , you could lose TV, computer etc. to cover the costs.

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1 minute ago, rhody said:

Was it a Mahnverfahren? There isn't really a small claims court in Germany like in some US states where each side says his/her piece and then a judge decides. The Mahnverfahren does not require that the claimant prove his case.  If you don't object to the Mahnverfahren (you have two weeks) because you actually do owe the claimant then the next step for the claimant is to get the paperwork for a bailiff to try and collect the money owed (Vollstreckungsbescheid).  This could mean taking your TV, computer or whatever the bailiff decides is worth the amount owed plus the fees with certain restrictions on what they can take.  It could go either way, the person could take it further or let it lie. Many people use the Mahnverfahren as a kind of super warning to get payment.  But it still requires for them to spend more money to collect it and as you say if you don't have anything then it could be difficult for them.

 

Thank you for the reply rhody. It's not a Mahnverfahren. It's a Klage. So I am not sure what to do next. I believe I should write an objection against it (it's due to insufficient service provided, they want to charge me for this). I am just afraid I will have to pay even more in the end. And because the lawyer refused to deal with this case I am afraid the judge might have a similar opinion.

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1 minute ago, RedMidge said:

Maybe you can agree a small amount to pay, in instalments.? Even Euro 25 a month? But, as above said, once it goes  to a bailiff , you could lose TV, computer etc. to cover the costs.

 

All I have is my laptop and my clothes (H&M) :)) So would it be the judge who decides that I have to pay in this way or the claimant? Maybe I should contact the claimant and explain the situation? 

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Maybe if you explain to claimant and agree to a fixed monthly amount, they might agree. Once the bailiff enters the picture- they are the ones who will check value of possessions.

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I also want to go to verbauchszentrale to ask them if there are any chances to win this if I argue. I was looking for places in Berlin which would protect the customer rights, but seems like the only place is verbrauchszentrale and you have to pay for it as well. Or does anyone know anything? 

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10 minutes ago, RedMidge said:

Maybe if you explain to claimant and agree to a fixed monthly amount, they might agree. Once the bailiff enters the picture- they are the ones who will check value of possessions.

 

If I am not able to pay and they want to take my laptop, would this whole thing affect my schufa? 

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Hi there

 

I paid a deposit for a place in the UK for the month of March, but then I cancelled within reasonable time and they got a new tenant for March and a deposit from her. Thus they have received 2 deposits for March from 2 different people. I was promised back my deposit, since they found a new tenant for March, but alas nothing. I have proof of payment and just some whatsapp messages that I kept, but no contract. Can I claim this through the German court? Since my country of residence is Germany?

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Funny, how come I can figure all this out, without going on the internet? Try to figure this one out, no, you can't, but you love to attack me, when I tell you to get off your fucking assh, and check the white pages, or *read* on your own.

Yes, they have, it is not the same as in the US, but I guess you could not figure that out in your home country too, without the help of the Internet.

Yeah, it is me. Really I am just vexed at your stupidity.

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Wow, somebody certainly got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. Go and have a cup of tea, love, you'll feel much better. 

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Interesting topic!

 

As I understand, noone here knows of a Comsumer Ombudsman, consumer complaints body or small claims court, at least not in Munich.

 

I was missold a service by ADAC, and would like my money back. But it's "only" 55 Euros, so I don't want to do anything that is going to cost. Is there a consumer association or the like that I can complain to? Or shall I have to tell ADAC that I will write them a nice review if they refund my money?

 

The particulars of the misseliing:

 

My husband needed his British driving license swapped for German one.

I contacted the driving license authority and asked if they really needed a translation and classification (a service that you can only get at ADAC, and which costs 55 Euros). A lady from the driving license authority repled via email that the translation was not needed, but she didn't reply about the classification. I wrote back, but she went on holiday and did not reply again.

 

So I thought I should hear it from ADAC themselves. They replied in an email that we would need it. After turning up at the driving license authority, we found out that the ADAC service was not needed.

 

I wrote to ADAC to ask for my money back. They replied that the service is needed "most of the time" for non-EU countries like the UK, and "sometimes" even for EU countries.

I take that to mean that they didn't know what they were talking about when they told me that the service was needed, and were just taking a qualified guess.

 

If anyone can help point me in the direction of somewhere I can complain in the Munich area, I would be very grateful. Thank you!

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