Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Berlin to lead the way for smoking ban in Germany

94 posts in this topic

 

@FTC

It is not against the law to smoke weed in Germany, Only sell it or grow large quanities.. Get your facts straight. This ain't the US.

It is heartening to know this isn't the US, thank you Dk.

 

I will attempt to get my facts straight. I was under the impression that it is against the law to smoke weed in Germany; and it varies from Land to Land, as to how you are dealt with if caught.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It is not against the law to smoke weed in Germany, Only sell it or grow large quanities..

NONSENSE!

 

 

Get your facts straight.

After you...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah, but do smokers have a cigarette then fight? Or do smokers smoke too many ciggies before getting into a car and wiping out a young family from pleasantville. Fuck man, get a grip and put it into perspective...who gives a fuck? There are far more important things to worry about than ciggie smoke.

If you are an angry drunk or drink and drive then you have a problem. Drinking and driving is ILLEGAL, first off, and so is assault.

I have breathing problems and I think I have as much of a right to go out dancing as any other girl. Why do I have to choke? Furthermore, why does a non-smoking waitress have to get lung cancer from other people's bad choices? If someone drank and drove and killed someone, they would be convicted of a crime.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah, but do smokers have a cigarette then fight? Or do smokers smoke too many ciggies before getting into a car and wiping out a young family from pleasantville. Fuck man, get a grip and put it into perspective...who gives a fuck?

Me, for a start. How often do I go into a pub or café and am inconvenienced by drunk, fighting alchohol drinkers? Virtually never. How often do I go into a pub or café and come out stinking of cigarrette smoke? Every fucking time. I'm sure smokers would object if I was to say repeatedly fart in their face, or spray them with some mysterious smelly substance, but for cigarrette smoke there seems to be an exception.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe that Berlin would try very hard to enforce such a ban, when I have had to sit through rides on the U-bahn with punks smoking IN THE CAR.

 

I would be happy if people could just hold on that little bit longer for their cancer fix (that U-bahn ride must really have been tough, dude), so that I don't get hit in the face with their first giant puff on a fresh cigarette as they are on the escalator/stairs to the street level. It's just so inconsiderate. There are people trapped behind you, and the wind blows it into our faces!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, in the Ubahn cars? I would never put up with this, nor have I ever seen it, but with my experience with poorly mannered Berlin teens and young adults as well as "look the other way" typical Berlin citizens, I can firmly believe that this has transpired. I guess scratching windows, graffiti and vandelism happen under the same circumstance. I think if one person speaks up others will follow. Also any threatening or aggressive disprespectful behaviour from the subjects gives you the right to either pull the emergency chord and/or have the police waiting at the next station- I have witnessed this twice and they will escort the offender off in custody.

 

BTW, Im new on the forum and I am really glad Ive found this. Very informative and interesting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i read an article in the paper last month - my german's still not too good, but i believe it said that they tried last year to make a national ban, but it was found to be unconstitutional for the national government to do it, i.e. they don't have the power. the power lies with the 16(?) lands/states. so now they are each making their own laws, although they're mostly the same. for berlin/brandenburg, the law will come into effect january 1st, 2008. smoking will be banned in most places. in bars and restaurants, it will only be allowed in a separate smoking room, which has to be a "side room", smaller than the main room, separated by a wall. there will be no exception for small corner bars, which some people had thought. smoking in discos/dance clubs, theatres, and many other places is banned completely. i don't have the full details, but you get the idea.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is amazing that Germany is the last heavy European nation to ban public smoking. Come on, if Italy & France did it and had majority support, Germany should have a long time ago. It reveals at what rate Germany progresses and/or sadly lags behind.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE "I must admit to being a smoker, however i am for the ban. My partner does not smoke, and as it works (very very well) in Ireland it is not too much of an inconvenience to pop outside (yes even in winter) for a ciggie."

 

Is there anyone out there who still believes in democracy?? I do not want to damage anyone else's health or to stop people going out because I smoke and truly accept the fact that it is a huge problem. However, I truly believe that there are democratic solutions to the problem and I do not understand why no one is prepared to consider them. Yes, non-smokers' rights have been ignored for years, but why are we now planning on completely ignoring smokers' rights? I have the right to smoke, it is legal and it is an inconvenience to "pop outside" for a ciggie, espeically when it is -10 degrees and snowing or lashing rain. It may be fine when you are in the pub for an hour and only have to go outside once, but if you are there for the whole evening it gets ridiculous. Its impossible to have a conversation and you end up with a table of ratty, irritated people, the non-smokers not enjoying themselves because they are left minding the coats the whole time, the smokers spending most of the evening outside or unhappy inside.

The smoking ban in Ireland is not working "very very well" - but no one is prepared to publicly admit that and prefer to tell funny stories about successful "smirting" (smoking/flirting - people who get together after meeting outside for a smoke!) Over 600 pubs have closed down since the ban came in, many pubs have completely lost their lunch time trade not to mind those many customers who used to come in for a coffee and a cigarette because their canteen, local cafe was already non-smoking. The pubs stink of farts, cheap perfume and sweat which ok, I know, is still better than breathing in other people's smoke, but is disgusting so I just had to mention it! And in Ireland hundreds of thousands of people now drink on the street which is illegal but that doesnt seem to bother anyone - it does however bother people (especially older people) who have to fight their way through crowds of drunken people standing on the street just to get to the shop - this is a real example, and even if still good-humoured, lots of drunks together can be pretty daunting and generally uncooperative.

Furthermore, after the ban came in in Ireland, the number of smokers in the country actually did go down for a while. Lots of people also decided to take the opportunity to give up, thinking the ban would make it easier. Now the figures have balanced out again and are the same as before. Maybe some people managed to give up, many didnt and the numbers of young people smoking has gone up. (40% of 18 to 34 year olds now smoke, I think its about 28% of the whole population) The ban does not seem to have deterred anyone or made smoking less acceptable in practice. Young women are apparently the worst - as in more young women are starting to smoke than men, which I think is similar in other countries, so obviously we need to find out why. Everyone under a certain age who smokes talks about how terrible it is and how they would like to give up - that is PC - only a few, and older generations have the courage to say that they really enjoy smoking, are prepared to face the consequences and could not imagine life without it. That might be incomprehensible to a non-smoker but it is true and there are many people, again, mainly older, who now do not go out to pubs at all because of the ban. Finally, the ban in Ireland has encouraged a Stasi type attitude with even a hotline set up for people to tell tales anonymously on bars that have illegal smoking sections (many have built conservatory type things which are not allowed - have to be open, ie no walls) or people who are breaking the ban. I dont find that to be a healthy development.

Ok, on the plus side, I can now go to a pub with my nieces and nephews in the day time - families can go out for a glass of wine and some pub grub on a Sunday etc., some non-smoking friends and relatives do go out more often, and non-smoking staff are suffering less. Thats great. But can there not be a compromise? Why is everyone so against separate smoking sections? Why are the cigarette companies and breweries not being forced to help fund proper ventilation systems - (good ones can reduce the smoke in the air to almost nothing)? Why are pubs not being given an option? Many would decide that it would be worth their while to become completely non-smoking because most of their business is food and families, others could opt for a separate smoking section etc. Tiny bars, of which there are many in Berlin, are a problem and I guess the only real solution there is an Irish type terrace (not quite a beer garden) with heating (the guy who sells those funny heaters that look like mushrooms in Ireland is now rolling in it - one success story) or an expensive ventilation system. I fully agree with a ban in restaurants, even as a smoker I find it pretty awful when someone lights up while I'm eating, but not pubs. I will definitely not go out so often when the ban comes in and I think Berlin's bars will suffer terribly, most of them only barely survive as it is.

Compromise and democracy not nanny state and blanket judgements. We can protect people's health while also protecting people's civil rights. Smokers are being made the scapegoats and all other problems are being conveniently ignored. Yes, people have come with the violence/domestic violence and alcohol, or obesity and high health costs - but the former is illegal as was already pointed out and the latter is still only affecting the person in question (- but what about our health insurance rates? Why not a tax on cream cakes?) The only really comparable thing is cars. You say you have a right to breathe clean air? Well, my dears, I'm afraid not one of us is breathing clean air. 3/4 of Berliners have swollen sinuses because of air pollution even if they dont smoke. I do not have a car, cycle everywhere and limit my air travel as much as possible. But I could still die from exhaust fumes. Why dont we pick on drivers too?

And one comment about weed - germany is certainly more liberal than other countries and you will most likely not get sent to prison for having 10 euros worth of grass in your pocket, but it is still illegal so be warned!!

Now, I'm sure I've added fuel to the fire, but before you berate me for wanting to pollute your lungs, please read again! I do fully agree that smoking is a problem, do not want to give anyone cancer, do not believe that smokers have the right to smoke everywhere (U-bahns, public buildings etc is really not on!) and know something has to be done. But with reason and sense! Why should I have to stay at home for the rest of my life? In my opinion 2 wrongs do not make a right!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have the right to smoke, it is legal and it is an inconvenience to "pop outside" for a ciggie, espeically when it is -10 degrees and snowing or lashing rain. It may be fine when you are in the pub for an hour and only have to go outside once, but if you are there for the whole evening it gets ridiculous. Its impossible to have a conversation and you end up with a table of ratty, irritated people, the non-smokers not enjoying themselves because they are left minding the coats the whole time, the smokers spending most of the evening outside or unhappy inside.

Man, I totally agree. You know what pisses me off too? When I go to the pub, I drink a lot of beer, and I have to piss all the time. I find it completely inconvenient to stand up and walk to the toilet. It's ok if I only go to the pub for an hour, but if I'm there the whole night, I have to go like 10 times. Like you say, it's impossible to have a conversation, so last time I was at the pub, I just decided to piss on the floor. It sprayed a bit over some people, but man, you've gotta have a little tolerance I say. Anyway, much more convenient than going to the loo. Then the landlord got pissed off. I can't believe it, what about my rights!?! This nanny state has gone too far!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Finally, the ban in Ireland has encouraged a Stasi type attitude with even a hotline set up for people to tell tales anonymously on bars that have illegal smoking sections (many have built conservatory type things which are not allowed - have to be open, ie no walls) or people who are breaking the ban. I dont find that to be a healthy development.

I wish they had that in Germany. In the few places where smoking is actually banned already, people ignore it and it's not enforced. And even if you ask them to move to the smoking area they refuse half the time.

 

But please, feel free to justify inconsiderate behavior by throwing around words like Stasi. (At least you didn't use the N word.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Man, I totally agree. You know what pisses me off too? When I go to the pub, I drink a lot of beer, and I have to piss all the time. I find it completely inconvenient to stand up and walk to the toilet. It's ok if I only go to the pub for an hour, but if I'm there the whole night, I have to go like 10 times. Like you say, it's impossible to have a conversation, so last time I was at the pub, I just decided to piss on the floor. It sprayed a bit over some people, but man, you've gotta have a little tolerance I say. Anyway, much more convenient than going to the loo. Then the landlord got pissed off. I can't believe it, what about my rights!?! This nanny state has gone too far!

I think I love you ;)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps when they have the ban in place, people wont be confused that "they have rights"...no, you dont. if a law is in effect, you dont have the right to smoke. let's face it, even though I like to smoke once in a while, so do others, if this product were presented today, it would never hit the market due to its highly dangerous health hazards. When will people understand what "rights" are vs. "priveleges"...get over it.

 

it is so uncool to smoke, intellectuals consider smokers trashy, it stinks, its lower class, its expensive, oh yeh, its proven fatal. why do we do it? its only for the selfish reason of getting off.

 

...and if there is a smoking prohibition in an area and people are smoking...you ask them to quit or move and they refuse? ive taken cigerettes and thrown them out...and/or last summer, we had a water pistol from swimming and doused them that way...LMAO...people get the idea and they have no right to say anything: 1.) they are in the wrong, 2.) they are germans and usually wont say anything.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps when they have the ban in place, people wont be confused that "they have rights"...no, you dont. if a law is in effect, you dont have the right to smoke. let's face it, even though I like to smoke once in a while, so do others, if this product were presented today, it would never hit the market due to its highly dangerous health hazards. When will people understand what "rights" are vs. "priveleges"...get over it.

 

it is so uncool to smoke, intellectuals consider smokers trashy, it stinks, its lower class, its expensive, oh yeh, its proven fatal. why do we do it? its only for the selfish reason of getting off.

I like your arguments...especially the 'rights' vs. 'priveleges' one.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and i do qualify as a smoker. i know my place and its outdoors and not interferring with anyone else's fresh air. common courtesy goes a long way.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps when they have the ban in place, people wont be confused that "they have rights"...no, you dont. if a law is in effect, you dont have the right to smoke. let's face it, even though I like to smoke once in a while, so do others, if this product were presented today, it would never hit the market due to its highly dangerous health hazards. When will people understand what "rights" are vs. "priveleges"...get over it.

 

it is so uncool to smoke, intellectuals consider smokers trashy, it stinks, its lower class, its expensive, oh yeh, its proven fatal. why do we do it? its only for the selfish reason of getting off.

 

...and if there is a smoking prohibition in an area and people are smoking...you ask them to quit or move and they refuse? ive taken cigerettes and thrown them out...and/or last summer, we had a water pistol from swimming and doused them that way...LMAO...people get the idea and they have no right to say anything: 1.) they are in the wrong, 2.) they are germans and usually wont say anything.

Yes, I do have the right to smoke, it is not a privilege, and I have the right to kill myself and I have the right not to want to be super healthy. I do not think smoking is cool and do not smoke for that reason. I would say 90% of "intellectuals" I know chain-smoke so I dunno where you get that idea from but anyway thats besides the point, the 40% of 18 to 34 yr. olds that smoke in Ireland are not all lower class, idiots, trashy. I enjoy smoking and dont think thats selfish. I do find it selfish to not be allowed smoke in a smoking section and I 100% agree that smokers should not be smoking in places where its banned and would not tolerate it either. So use your water pistols whenever you want.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

smoking is a priveledge, not a right. Im sure you can subpena the UN human rights watch group if you are told not to smoke.

 

suicide (aka: killing yourself) is not your right either. IN most sophsiticated countries, this is against the law.

 

of course you dont have to be "super healthy", whatever that means??? nor do you have to be cool.

 

irregardless of your experiences, smoking has been stigmatized within professional, intellectual circles: yes, it might seem superficial, but it has its positive repercussions. It is time to quit for us all. The ban will go into effect and you will comply.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I do find it selfish to not be allowed smoke in a smoking section and I 100% agree that smokers should not be smoking in places where its banned and would not tolerate it either.

What about workers that have to work in these smoking areas? What about their "rights"?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Man, I totally agree. You know what pisses me off too? When I go to the pub, I drink a lot of beer, and I have to piss all the time. I find it completely inconvenient to stand up and walk to the toilet. It's ok if I only go to the pub for an hour, but if I'm there the whole night, I have to go like 10 times. Like you say, it's impossible to have a conversation, so last time I was at the pub, I just decided to piss on the floor. It sprayed a bit over some people, but man, you've gotta have a little tolerance I say. Anyway, much more convenient than going to the loo. Then the landlord got pissed off. I can't believe it, what about my rights!?! This nanny state has gone too far!

Har har!

Your comic skills aside, if you have to go the loo 10 times in one evening then I feel very sorry for your liver, kidneys, stomach and family and friends when they have to visit you in hospital after your first bout of pancreatitus. You are aware that men can drink a maximum of 4 units of alcohol per day, women 3, 1 pint is already 2 units so 2 pints is the maximum in one day that is considered safe for a man. I am constantly amazed how alcohol is so tolerated in our society. Drinking causes so many problems and more people die from it than from hard drugs, Its perfectly ok, even amusing, that people drink illegally on the streets, who cares if they then piss on every corner, turn residential areas and city streets into rubbish heaps full of broken glass, drink way in excess of recommended amounts, block traffic, frighten old people and prevent them from going out or even to the shops, have blackouts, puke all over the place, and act the idiot or even worse hurt and insult people. As long as they are not violent its ok... they are only harming themselves and sure most of its only a bit of fun. But no way can smokers have a smoking section that not one non-smoker ever has to enter...

Proper ventilation systems not only remove the smoke from the air they are able to reduce the levels of carbon monoxide to below those in a non-smoking pub. They are incredibly expensive but why not the choice?

I have said over and over again that no smokers should be smoking in non-smoking places, no non-smoker should have to suffer any inconsiderate behaviour by smokers and it is common sense that smoking sections have to be located in places that non-smokers do not have to walk through etc. I do not condone the fact that Germany is not enforcing laws that are already in place or that people smoke on trains etc - I have never seen this but dont think its right, thats a different problem and one that could be solved without an undemocratic ban. If one insists on the ban, then the only unhypocritical thing to do is to make smoking a criminal offence and to introduce huge taxes on petrol, diesel, fatty foods, mobile phones and industry, to name a few of the worst offenders and pollutants that are still legal.

The comment that smoking would not be patented today amuses me, every day products are allowed on the market that later prove fatal or seriously damaging to health - and not over decades but within the space of a few weeks, months, years if you are lucky. Nicotine has lots of beneficial attributes too, maybe today they would be clever enough to produce a better product.

 

PS Suicide is not illegal in most "sophisticated" societies - actually its the other way round, most countries that have separated state and church no longer judge suicide to be a criminal offence - only aiding or advising someone to commit suicide:

"Under English criminal law, the Suicide Act 1961 decriminalised the act of suicide so that those who failed in the attempt would no longer be prosecuted." (wikipedia)

"Suicide or attempted suicide is no longer an offence in Australia. However. assisting or encouraging another person to commit suicide is..." (Australian government report)

 

The reference to the stasi is a direct quote from people living in Ireland suffering under the new regime and new atmosphere - I think they have the right to express what they feel. I do not compare nazis with the stasi or with anyone else but do compare encouraging people to spy on their fellow citizens with stasi methodology

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0