What happens if Scotland gains independence?

825 posts in this topic

 

No, as you can see from the Metro link up there, even the YES campaign stated that there was nothing to worry about. they just put them there BEFORE sorting them.

 

Yes fair enough, have to admit that I posted before checking the other links provided. Don't panic, democracy is saved!

 

I would humbly suggest to the organisers that in future they don't put the little paper signs for yes and no on the tables until after they are cleared of uncounted votes.

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The Scottish vote as Canada's CBC sees it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/after-the-scotland-referendum-what-happens-next-1.2771496

 

Personally, I think the No vote was the best of the choices. If the UK government would mend their way and govern for all their people and not only for their finance industry. Which is also the cause of friction in the EU and not having the EURO.

 

The British "Lords" have to accept that the time of the Empire is over, which brings to mind the Rain in Spain musical, why can't the English...

 

With the present world situation one may think the UK government would agree to pull on the common European string and try to influence the European thinking for the common good and not only for the City of London interests.

 

It seems the immigrant refugee problem will also have to be solved on a European base. One can't blame the people from troubled countries to search for a peaceful place. However, many refugees are only economic ones and these should only be allowed into EU if they are required and work is available for them.

 

As it is now they seem to have a patchwork of (no)rules and then people are wondering how racists are created. The UK has to deal with the aftermath of their Empire and so have a few other European countries. But the greatest influx of strangers is into Germany as they are seen as the land of milk and honey.

 

That upsets the local less well to do people and that is to create tension over time, no doubt.

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Video for RT audience:

 

 

 

 

This video is from Russia, 2012 when Putin was "elected" as a president. The message Russia propaganda wants to transmit is "the English cheat with ballots, how dare they teach us democracy".

 

 

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For your information, foreigners are obliged to have a valid ID in the UK. No, you cannot claim that you are not a foreigner because false claim of citizenship is a crime and you can't fake English (Scottish, Irish) accent.

This is at least a triple fallacy, ironically neatly fitting into your (not mine) adopted system of "crackpottery" with quite a high score:

 

(1) Illegal immigrants surely care a lot about the criminal nature of claiming citizenship (or even know this). (?!)

 

(2) Accent / dialect validity also surely enjoy priority over IDs, not to mention that you are simply unable, due to undisclosed and undebatable forces applicable in your lego world, to claim for instance that you are an English in Scotland, etc.

 

(3) I, for one, can very much replicate Scottish with a bit of effort (not Irish though), few people spot me being non-British in the UK, and almost none outside England (when I do get "caught", it is mostly because of phrases I use, not pronounciation). This ability of course is largely irrelevant, since the UK is perfectly used to actual UK citizens speaking with an acquired foreign accent - in fact many of them are born and raised with such.

 

By the way, do you realise that in order to achieve 0 points in your crackpottery system, one would never formulate an individual thought, would never add a viewpoint, and would only perpetually regurgitate the one single eternal cattle-consensus (that doesn't exist anyway)? To some extent, it is therefore comforting to know that I achieve mid-level scores on the infamous crackpottery scale.

 

For a fairer game: I do not necessarily believe what I write. I merely wanted to demonstrate a point to Bryan, and I can do so in an apparent "leftist" rhetoric as well whenever needed (mostly for idiots you would stigmatise as being "right winger", I hope you get the inverted symmetry here). Accordingly, that comment was more about highlighting the utter lack of pragmatism of legislation and societal preferences in the UK, than making some kind of political statement on an internet forum. Nevertheless, enumerating mere language / dialect affinity as some form of inherent test for legitimacy for residents, as opposed to IDs, is truly ridiculous. Really. And this time, I do believe this. Furthermore, at the age of claimed 30, and presumably living in Europe, that level of naivety / shallow talent in a kind of demagogy I am yet to discover the true motivation of (as the case may be) is converging towards criminality, too. Not seriously, if I have to spell that out, this is again one case in which the utility of the sentence is not the content, not as per wording at least. That okay?

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By the way, do you realise that in order to achieve 0 points in your crackpottery system, one would never formulate an individual thought, would never add a viewpoint, and would only perpetually regurgitate the one single eternal cattle-consensus (that doesn't exist anyway)? To some extent, it is therefore comforting to know that I achieve mid-level scores on the infamous crackpottery scale.

 

That's 20 points:

 

 

20 points for emailing me and complaining about the crackpot index. (E.g., saying that it "suppresses original thinkers" or saying that I misspelled "Einstein" in item 8.)

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

 

 

Nevertheless, enumerating mere language / dialect affinity as some form of inherent test for legitimacy for residents, as opposed to IDs, is truly ridiculous. Really. And this time, I do believe this.

 

The cult of plastic and paper is not ridiculous? Real life story: there is no birth place in my passport but Germay requires this information often. Once I went to the driving license office to apply for one. A lady there looked at my passport and saw that there is no birth place there. She asked me about it and I confirmed that there is no birth place in my passport. I was about to tell her where I was born but she said quickly: "Ok, I'll just look at the Melderegister". She connected to the Melderegister and found my birthplace there.

 

Now Melderegister contains information which you provide when you register. Which requires a passport, which at the time still didn't have my birthplace. Now guess how information about my birthplace appeared there?

 

Guess, how? Ahahaha, this cult of IDs and papers will never stop to amaze me.

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Given how many people are saying how great this result is but who probably couldn't find Dundee on a map, I have very little time for the opinion of anyone who hasn't lived in Scotland on this subject unless they write a 3000 word essay on a subject such as the effects of Thatcherism on the Scottish economy.

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Thatcher wrecked economies around the UK. Scotland does not have sole rights to whingeing about that, whatever they may think.

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I think the difference is that Scotland had a chance of radically changing things - and the reverberations of a "yes" vote might have shaken Establishment complacency to the core.

 

One of the reasons I moved to Germany was Thatcherism/Blairism and the consequences thereof - insecure career, facing a financial abyss (etc, etc). I didn't have a lousy Zero-Hours contract, but the "Flexible Hours" contract I had was bad enough. Try telling your mortgage provider (for example) that you can't afford to pay more than 35% this month, but maybe next month (with a few extra hours if you're lucky) should/might be better.

 

But Scotland (this time anyway) somewhat blew it. In Life, if changes are made, risks are sometimes/often taken. Calculated risks are probably the best ones to take - but the fundamental question of the currency (and therefore pensions and much more) was not properly adddressed by the Yes campaign - "It'll be alright on the night" is perhaps one of the fundamental reasons it failed. At the same time, my heart goes out to disappointed "Yes" voters. At the end of the day, Scotland's struggle for self-determination was not mine, although I'm happy to nail my flag to the mast in terms of loathing the current UK neo-liberal consensus.

 

There's a big cloud of dust hovering above the Devo-Max business right now. Cameron has said "trust me, I'll deliver", Gordon Brown has gone in with all guns blazing, Clegg, as usual will pledge anything to anybody - and recent political history has demonstrated that his word is worth less than the stains on a piece of used toilet paper.

 

As per my posts above, I'm at heart a UK federalist, but one who recognises, accepts and respects differences between not just regions, but nations.

 

Ah well, the spoon is well and truly in the pot of hot stew right now - the result I would like to see is that everyone gets a good, wholesome plateful - and that politicians once again realise that they are answerable to the people's will and not vice-versa.

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I always really enjoy your well-thought out and heart-felt posts, Keefy! I enjoy your sensitivity, your cultural and historical awareness, your judgement.

 

Why? Probably because I feel the same! And because I agree with your analysis here!

You know, Keefy, you really make me think of and remind me of an old friend of mine from Portsmouth whom I met in Bonn in 1970 when I was 18 and he was 43 and a building site worker who could do crosswords in German. He´d bunked off from the UK ( my memory is super tonight :P !) over an unpaid tax bill and ended up , well, in Germany.

 

He actually helped me out one night in a disco! Yes, in a disco in Cologne. He was 43, short, a bit fat, a real gentleman and softly spoken type and an ex-boxer.

I, shy, thin and pathetic, asked a girl for a dance ( though I couldn´t dance, had no money and all the rest of it ie no plan! ). My friend Ken was in the bog at that moment I asked the girl for a dance and, I assure you, I was polite and non-hassling..and suddenly her boyfriend came up behind me and started throttling me.

 

Next thing I knew: whack. Ken had seen it and ended the hassle ( plus the impending hassle of two of the boyfriend´s friends!).

Mind you, Ken passed out on the floor then..can´t remember what happened then..thanks Ken.

 

I´m not sure this post is on topic! I´m probably just ranting..and being nostalgic...and hoping for a better world...and this better world will need people who care about a better world and I hope the Scotland referendum is a call for people to see they can make a difference..as long as they accept other people´s views.

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I think it's a matter of opinion, Keefy, on whether or not Scotland blew it! You know my thoughts on it :) I would agree with the federalism though. I've been embarrassed for a while that Scotland seems to want all this devolution but there is no fair push across the UK for the same. It doesn't feel great being a "special" case. It makes me feel like we are spoilt attention seekers when England has no devolution whatsoever.

 

Anyway, I am just so tired of this all and spent much of Friday a bit damp eyed after 1hr of sleep the night before. I still can't believe nor expected the whole thing to have bothered me that much but it did.

 

I've had some great chats with Yes supporters last few days, a few I hadn't had any chat with for a while and we have all shared banter and shook hands to some extent. Not had the same with others though.

 

It is a hollow victory I feel in some respects. Facebook is now awash with the "45" profile pictures, there are claims from some SNP circles that a majority in the next Scottish elections will be enough to declare independence without a referendum. I can't believe I'm actually reading stuff like that.

 

As someone living in Glasgow I am also saddened by some folk's reference to Glasgow as "Free Glasgow" as if some similarities can be drawn to "Free Derry" sort of mentality. It certainly makes me feel less welcome in my home city and Salmond congratulated Glasgow himself. I was always going to clean up my facebook profile to remove all twibbons etc straight after which I did, but others I've never seen even post about the referendum are now adopting this 45 approach.

 

What is that meant to tell us or make us feel apart from more division when people should unite. It's from the same people who want a better society yet are obsessed with nationality. Imagine what they could achieve if they put that time and effort into actually working towards real change.

 

We will see what happens down the line but I don't feel as elated as I thought I would after this win.

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It's clear the independence genie is well and truly out of the bottle and London better be careful not to lose the stopper.

 

 

It's from the same people who want a better society yet are obsessed with nationality. Imagine what they could achieve if they put that time and effort into actually working towards real change.

 

I don't think these people are obsessed with nationality, just that the chance of real change coming from Westminster is slim compared to the Scotland-focused concept put forward by the separatists.

 

No matter how realistic you consider that concept to be...

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I'm not sure "The 45" have picked the best name. There was a previous Scotland-related "the forty-five" back in 1745 and that didn't end too well for all concerned.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure their planned boycott is going to be very hard to follow considering the long list of companies on it. You might be able to swap your bank and change where you buy your clothes and tools, but nobody else makes tea cakes or caramel wafers like Tunnock's.

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Who needs reconciliation when you can have division?

 

Church bells ring to reunite Scotland after referendum

Reconciliation Church service no show for Salmond and Sturgeon

"Alex Salmond and his deputy Nicola Sturgeon did not attend a special church service in Edinburgh yesterday which was aimed at healing divisions created by the independence referendum. Finance Secretary John Swinney represented the Scottish Government at St Giles Cathedral and only two other SNP MSPs – John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) and Roderick Campbell (North-east Fife) – turned up."

 

Scotland could still declare independence – even without referendum, says Alex Salmond

"I mean when you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing’s on the wall for Westminster,” he said."

 

Except ... "13:29: 'Shaky' breakdown The Guardian's Scotland correspondent Severin Carrell tells the John Beattie programme that some of the findings of Lord Ashcroft's breakdown of who voted for what in the independence referendum were "a bit shaky". He says: "They had a very small sample of 16 and 17-year-olds for instance. They find from 17 kids that they surveyed - just 17 out of the 2,000 in the sample for the survey - that 71% or so of 16 and 17-year-olds were Yes. That completely contradicts all the other survey work."

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-scotland-29306675

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Some lessons from Canada:

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-second-scottish-independence-referendum-may-happen-sooner-090845847.html#FkR0ZKi

 

Summary: If the UK Government doesn't deliver on it's devolution of power promises another referendum could be sooner than later, and that if the SNP is seen to be a single issue (independence) party they could become irrelevant quickly.

 

Personally, if I was the next SNP leader I would now focus on making life better for Scottish people. They already have control over NHS Scotland, education, justice and policing, rural affairs, economic development and transport, and seem likely to get further powers. They claimed that Scottish people are more effective in controlling their own destiny than Westminster, and if they can demonstrate that, then they improve their chances of being in Government for the next referendum (25 years?) and also the chances of winning it.

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That's not feminism, that's so called positive sexism which is just as bad as negative one.

 

Talking shite as usual - the fact is, women are under represented in most governments around the world, it's got nothing to do with 'positive discrimination', it's to do with expecting equality in the one area that could make a difference to womens' lives, government.

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Seemed to work out well... Scotland may need a decade or two to get things right... :ph34r:

 

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Scotland is not Germany. Wonder why the mods have not deleted this.

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@optimista: 'Scotland is not Germany'

 

Really? Thanks for telling me this. And you're not an arse ... oh hang on!

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