What happens if Scotland gains independence?

825 posts in this topic

 

Don't worry- devolution isnt going to come.

and

 

 

Second when push comes to shove the people living in Scotland will not vote for devolution.

and

 

 

When they really get a chance to put devolution into action then they will (hopefully) be a bit more rational and realise that the UK needs to be United for its own good.

er, Scotland voted for and got devolution in the late 90s.

 

The issue is whether the devolved parliament cuts its ties with Westminster, something which previously looked highly unlikely but now looks like a realistic possibility.

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Independence for Scotland, bring it on!

That would really screw up Gordon Brown's planning, or maybe Tony has the inside track and that's why he's waiting before he quits.

Probably wants to wait until Gordon is inelligible to be Prime Minister.

 

I can't wait because we will then get The Peoples Republic of Yorkshire!

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The Scots are idiots if they separate. Just like the Quebequois.

 

I bet most of them haven't thought about things like there will be a separate passport and there will be separate money. I don't just mean that it will look different, it will be another currency.

Maybe the Scots would join the Euro!

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Yeah Bell, you gave a lot back-up to your arguments, didn't you? Easy to say I'm ignorant but even easier not to bother to prove it. One statement of opinion isn't fact.

you insulted my country and I was angry at that.

 

Okay, I will explain a little bit of the history:

 

Scotland is not tied to the UK in a confederation like Quebec is to Canada. There is no constitution and only one act, the Act of Union (which exists in both the Scottish and English legal codes) that ties Scotland and England together in a Union. Under the terms of the Union, Scotland sends MPs to Westminster and peers to the Lords. Other than that, the terms of the Union are not articulated further and all other instruments of state are separate for the two countries.

 

Previous to 1999, the control of Scottish Law, Education, Health, Industry, Agriculture etc was controlled by a civil service department and a cabinet member, the Scottish secretary. Parliament did not have a say. This democratic deficit was reformed in 1999 with the creation of a devolved parliament in Edinburgh with democratic control of Scottish affairs for the first time in almost 300 years.

 

Support for independence as a meaningful political movement is largely a postwar phenomenon but the real growth in support for it was when the SNP supported 'Scotland in Europe'. Under this scenario Scotland would cut its political ties with Westminster with a minimum of fuss and stay as before as an EU state, but this time with representation in the European Commission.

 

For most thinking Scots this is not an apocalyptic prospect but up to now most have thought of it as unnecessary. I am surprised to see this changing but the Labour Party at present are making itself and its devolved parliament look ery unpopular to the Scottish electorate. If things go on getting worse they could very well vote for a split.

 

*That* is why I say parallels with Quebec just don't stand up.

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On second thoughts, maybe Scottish independance is a good thing. At least the rest of us wouldn't have to be ruled by Scottish politicans any more. In fact, we would almost certainly have a Conservative government without the Scottish MPs. It would take decades for Labour to recover from that.

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you insulted my country and I was angry at that.

no she didn't. Sometimes i think you just read what you want to read. She said seperatists were dunces. She did not say all Scots or Scotland.

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I think if it did happen, that kind of seismic change in the body politic would probably lead to some form of political realignment in the same way as giving the vote to women killed the Liberals, breaking up the Union could perhaps breathe new life in to the LibDems.

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breaking up the Union could perhaps breathe new life in to the LibDems.

possibly. they might be seen at the left of the new centre. It might also set them back. They also have quite a few Scottish MPs and are likely to profit from Labour's demise in Scotland at future eelction (but probably not as much as the SNP).

 

post-1931-1157971094.png

Orange = LibDem

Red = Labour

Blue = Conservative

Green = Plaid Cymru

Yellow = SNP

Light Green in NI = Sinn Fein ( I think)

The reddish colour in NI = Ulster Unionists ( I think) maybe someone can help on NI?

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no she didn't. Sometimes i think you just read what you want to read. She said seperatists were dunces. She did not say all Scots or Scotland.

most Scots are separatists though - whether they support devolution or independence. Maybe I read too much into it but I do take exception into a very serious political issue being reduced to calling one side of the argument 'dunces'

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I wonder how well Scotland would survive on its own? As far as I'm aware, they have the most unemployment and therefore the most people on the dole in the whole of the UK. If this is the case, it would do England, not Scotland a favour if they left.

If you are really interested read this...

 

It's Scotland's Oil

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if it did happen, lots of flag waving and silly speaches by ex-james bond actors. then what? how seriously does scotland think it can survive? we can debate north sea oil rights and where the taxes would go but one thing is certain. the north sea isnt a viable income grower in the next 20 years.

 

theres no industrial base really anymore, and such post industrial services such as call centres and electronic manufacturing are either 100% dependant on a UK scenario or basicly threatened by cheaper and poorer new-eu states. which rules out seriously the ability of an independant scotland to suck more cash out of brussels in such a long term manner as ireland and portugal successfully did in their early mamber period. with already large unemployment, such employers as the armed forces will also cease to be a viable thing, and the new english parliment would do its damdest to remove any british military facilities asap and not subsidide scotland.

 

this is a factor i believe most scots havent thought through. what will be the english and welsh reaction. i serioously doubt it'l be charitable. scots will be stigmatised quiet heavily as ungreatful turncoats and general undesirables by some employers, especialy if they insist on somehow celebrating in public style the xenophibic attitude prevelant in people such as andy murry.

 

i say give them it. but this time we let em fall apart at the seams. james the first (3rd) will be turning in his grave.

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such employers as the armed forces will also cease to be a viable thing

why? The British Army still recruits in the Republic of Ireland and in many Commonwealth Countries. Why would an independant Scotland be different?

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because of the groundswell public feeling. i seriously doubt this would be a clean divorce.

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hmm, can't remember what stats it was based on but I do remember reading that excluding North Sea oil, Scotland was the 18th biggest economy in the world. That's quite an achievement for a small country. I would alo note that Edinburgh is Europes second biggest financial centre with assets in excess of Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Paris or Milan. When the doomsayers opine that Scotland couldn't survive, maybe they should back up their arguments with solid evidence rather than thinly veiled prejudice.

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we can debate north sea oil rights and where the taxes would go but one thing is certain. the north sea isnt a viable income grower in the next 20 years.

It is quite remarkable how quickly production in the north sea will drop off in the near future.

 

 

North Sea oil production fell ten percent (230,000 barrels) in 2004, and fell an additional 12.8% in 2005. This was the largest decrease of any other oil exporting nation in the world, and has led to Britain becoming a net importer of crude for the first time in decades, as recognized by the energy policy of the United Kingdom. [1]. The production is expected to fall to one-third from its peak by 2020

peak production year for north sea oil was 1999.

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As a Scot, I just don't see the need for independance. We've got a strong national identity that being in the Union hasn't taken away from us. We're well represented in Parliment and the upheaval full independance would cause just doesn't bear thinking about. I also don't think it would make me feel any more "Scottish" than I am now.

 

Plus although a lot of people may be in favour of the idea of independance. I doubt many of them would like the idea of having to vote for the Loonie lefties that are the SNP. That lot couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery.

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james the first (3rd) will be turning in his grave.

NB, he was James VI. And incidentally he neither supported or advocated any union of parliaments for Scotland. That did not actually happen until long after he was dead and gone.

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hmm, can't remember what stats it was based on but I do remember reading that excluding North Sea oil, Scotland was the 18th biggest economy in the world. That's quite an achievement for a small country. I would alo note that Edinburgh is Europes second biggest financial centre with assets in excess of Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Paris or Milan. When the doomsayers opine that Scotland couldn't survive, maybe they should back up their arguments with solid evidence rather than thinly veiled prejudice.

sorry i'm furthering the hypothesies as i never see it being discussed futher especialy within the context of the english reaction to said event hapening. i was not being predjudiced, vieled or otherwise. itbh honest i dont need twats like you to insult me like that. you wanted the discussion, so be so kind as not to piss people off who want to take part.

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