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Guantanamo Bay detention camp

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Pay attention, murphy. Plenty of Americans are appalled at the existence of the detention center at Guantanamo Bay and the conditions there. Possibly even a majority applaud the Supreme Court's decisions against the Bush Administration's plans for continued detentions without due process.

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Nicely reworded thread title YankSavage. You know Guantanamo bay is an embarrassment to your country, if you weren't so blindly patriotic you'd have the honesty to admit it openly.

Not blindly patriotic at all. After 12 years in Europe, I'm aware of the inherent anti-americanism of Europeans and the left in the US. I'm sceptical of the left because of all the hate I was subjected to is all. Thought I'd make my comment regarding the title. The current title is more fair. Wouldn't you agree?

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It really troubles me when conservatives claim that the "Left" in America ("Left" being a very relative term) are anti-American. That is clearly absurd. It is possible to criticise one or more aspects of your own country without actually being "opposed" to it.

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Fair enough point STB. Le's say, I'm not in agreement with congressman Murtha when he calls our troops murderers. I was in the military,as were three of my four brothers, and none of us, or any of our friendsd could be described as such.

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Fair enough point STB. Le's say, I'm not in agreement with congressman Murtha when he calls our troops murderers.

Quote and link, please.

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He was clearly referring to a specific incident, rather than calling all troops murderers. Charges were brought as a result of that incident, although inevitably later dropped. As the news anchor pointed out, Murtha served in the Marine Corp himself for 37 years. So I'm not really sure what your point is.

 

Charges dropped in Haditha trial

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if you were in a gethole like that i would also be saying the same thing, stop making excuses

What is it? - a gethole. Pray tell.

What does one say in it?

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It's quite clear cut as far as the world outside the current US Administration and their supporters are concerned.

Hey, even the US Supreme Court has said it:

The Guantamo Bay prisoners are either POWs with rights under the Geneva Convention or they are criminals with the right to face a regular court of law.

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Not blindly patriotic at all. After 12 years in Europe, I'm aware of the inherent anti-americanism of Europeans and the left in the US. I'm sceptical of the left because of all the hate I was subjected to is all. Thought I'd make my comment regarding the title. The current title is more fair. Wouldn't you agree?

So making contentious statements on an internet forum that's based in Germany is somehow going to be cathartic for you? Sure there is a lot of anti Americanism in europe at the moment, but perhaps if you and your countrymen didn't walk around thinking you were the saviours of all man-kind and had some kind of moral capital over everyone else that resentment wouldn't be so prevalent? You're a big boy, deal with it.

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Can we please establish the nationality of Murphy?

 

Cos he ain't English with his command of grammar.

Murphy is from some Balkan country. I heard this last night from a knowledgeable towner down the pub.

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Can we please establish the nationality of Murphy?

 

Cos he ain't English with his command of grammar.

What difference does it make what nationality he is? You using that as some sort of yardstick to judge people?

 

 

Murphy is from some Balkan country. I heard this last night from a knowledgeable towner down the pub.

Creepy, this is starting to sound a little too gestapoesque

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Yeah, if Russia starts causing serious trouble here in Europe how long will it be before the Euro-peons come a callin' for the help of the U.S. There is so much anti-Americanism here because it makes them "feel" better about themselves. It's nothing more to it than that. I for one really, really, really hope Russia invades Poland or something and then we can tell Europe to go fuck yourselves. I'd love to see Germany have to come to the aid of Poland. Oh boy, that would be funny. I'd be willing to spend what's left in my 401k to see that.

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Sure it would be funny, funny as fuck. Just make sure that your homies in Homeland Security do not look askance at your time spent voluntarily among the acursed and the unenlightened when you decide to decide to return home.

 

Also make sure none of this shit goes down before Oktoberfest.

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Yeah, if Russia starts causing serious trouble here in Europe how long will it be before the Euro-peons come a callin' for the help of the U.S. There is so much anti-Americanism here because it makes them "feel" better about themselves.

Actually, hostility towards the USA is a relatively new thing in Europe. Sure there were always a few diehard anti-americans but the vast majority of us saw America as a friend. It has been the actions of the Bush regime in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, through extraordinary rendition and ostensibly all elements of the bogus War on Terror that has turned public opinion this side of the pond resolutely against the USA. When that is added to the fact that the political centre in the USA has been moving steadily right over the last 20 odd years it leaves an unbridgebale gap that will oly get very much worse if that MCain gets elected on a continuity ticket.

 

 

It's nothing more to it than that. I for one really, really, really hope Russia invades Poland or something and then we can tell Europe to go fuck yourselves. I'd love to see Germany have to come to the aid of Poland. Oh boy, that would be funny. I'd be willing to spend what's left in my 401k to see that.

Poland is in NATO and the reason Russia is threatening it is because of the American weapons shield your country is stationing there. TBH, I hope that Russia's sabre rattling will cause Poland to think again about allowing the shield on their soil.

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Actually, hostility towards the USA is a relatively new thing in Europe. Sure there were always a few diehard anti-americans but the vast majority of us saw America as a friend. It has been the actions of the Bush regime in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, through extraordinary rendition and ostensibly all elements of the bogus War on Terror that has turned public opinion this side of the pond resolutely against the USA. When that is added to the fact that the political centre in the USA has been moving steadily right over the last 20 odd years it leaves an unbridgebale gap that will oly get very much worse if that MCain gets elected on a continuity ticket.

Europeans aren't "resolutely against the US" except primarily for the usual suspects on the activist European left, and that is the case no matter how many times you post that. Nor has the political center in the US moved significantly to the right in the past 20 years, although if it has you can hardly say that it's all about Bush, plus that would ecompass domestic issues as well. The real cognitive dissonance comes when some Europeans try to indicate that Obama will serve their interests and that McCain is a continuation of Bush- both laughable notions. Speaking of Bush, you might want to read the Zakaria article about Bush's second-term multilateralism.

 

 

Poland is in NATO you idiot and the reason Russia is threatening it is because of the American weapons shield your country is stationing there. TBH, I hope that Russia's sabre rattling will cause Poland to think again about allowing the shield on their soil.

One which cannot possibly be even a nuisance, much less a threat to Russia (and is there to defend against missiles from Iran). Yet you follow that Russian line hook, line, and sinker even after Russia's behavior in the Caucasus? :lol: I guess you forgot Putin's Soviet/KGB past.

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Europeans aren't "resolutely against the US" except primarily for the usual suspects on the activist European left, and that is the case no matter how many times you post that.

have you seen the polls? Even Tories in the UK are opposed to US foreign policy, which is something of a first.

 

 

Nor has the political center in the US moved significantly to the right in the past 20 years, although if it has you can hardly say that it's all about Bush, plus that would ecompass domestic issues as well.

On the contrary, although it has probably been going on longer than just the last 20 years. The centre of EU politics has moved slightly to the right in that time but nothing on the scale of the US.

 

 

The real cognitive dissonance comes when some Europeans try to indicate that Obama will serve their interests and that McCain is a continuation of Bush- both laughable notions.

McCain has stated he will continue the War on Terror and actually extend it. That is enough for most of us here in Europe to be utterly repelled by him. On foreign policy Obama is much closer to Europe, which is why he has such sky-rocketing approval ratings over here.

 

 

Speaking of Bush, you might want to read the Zakaria article about Bush's second-term multilateralism.

Bush has softened opnly since becominga lameduck with plummeting popularity. But his multilateralism is out of sync with his supposed successor, McCain.

 

 

One which cannot possibly be even a nuisance, much less a threat to Russia (and is there to defend against missiles from Iran). Yet you follow that Russian line hook, line, and sinker even after Russia's behavior in the Caucasus? I guess you forgot Putin's Soviet/KGB past.

It is right on the border of Russia and nowhere near Iran, which does not even have nuclear weapons at the moment. It is surely obvious that would upset Russia - I don't need to "take their word for it" FFS! Why do you think "Old Europe" have been so against the missile shield from the start?

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