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Guantanamo Bay detention camp

192 posts in this topic

 

You are being very selective in your argumentation here Topsy. I mean, you are just jumping on that big bandwagon to have a dig at the US and their actions... I mean, why just mention Guantanamo?

The clue to the answer is in the thread title, Crawlie.

 

It is just another excuse to have a go at them damn merrycans and their "over-arrogance"

Was that directed at me?

If so, I don't think that's a fair accusation, actually. I seldom have a gratuitous go at Americans - in fact I've often been known to defend them to the the extent that I've had pm's from Americans on the board thanking me for being the voice of reason. Which brings me to...

 

Ah, that's better, the old Topsy back from the brink of reason. No, I'm sure he was a lovely gent, salt of the earth that one, but I'm sure there's a few there you wouldn't want to invite round for tea. IMHO only due legal process and fair trials for all can separate the two. We can then say to all those around the world who aren't naturally inclined to love the West 'see how we treat even those who we might broadly label as scum' and they'll love us for it.

I'm wading through the sarcasm, but sorry - I'm still not clear why you might broadly label them as scum? We both agree that there is a good chance that there are innocent men in there. So why label them wholesale as scum? Is it because they generally have brown skin? Because they're moslem? Because they come from Saudi Arabia or Yemen? Or do you in general disagree with the "innocent until proven guilty" premise? Sorry, but I'm baffled...

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Good morning Topsy. Sorry, maybe I should have labelled them 'bad people'. I label them, wholesale, as scum because that is how they are being treated, and it seems to be how they are viewed by their captors. You are very quick to bring in the suggestion of bigotry or closet racism and this doesn't do you justice.

 

I am in favour of nothing other than the guilty being charged and the innocent, or even those about whom there is insufficient evidence to prosecute, being released as quickly as possible. Letting possibly guilty or dangerous people go free is simply the least worst option. Didn't you read this in my previous posts?

 

Incidentally this was on BBC radio 4's Today Programme yesterday. It's becoming hard to see how the US can close Guantanamo without a huge loss of face, giving it's credibility as a world leader in moral values a huge dent, and if the camp is kept open it's obvious that opposition will only grow world wide. A predicament that was as predictable as it is tragic.

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Good morning, HA. Well, that's fine. From your post I got the impression that you thought of them yourself as scum. And that you were labelling me as borderline insane for not doing so myself.

But since that's not what you meant, then it's all good :)

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Was that directed at me?

If so, I don't think that's a fair accusation,

No. It was directed in general. I know the title of the thread but surely one needs to look at the broader picture before casting doubts over the actions of one nation

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but surely one needs to look at the broader picture before casting doubts over the actions of one nation

well it has never stopped Bush has it?

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Anyone who draws similarities between POW conditions in WWII and what's going on in Guantanamo does not know what they are talking about, period.

You're right there... the Axis POWs in the US during/after WW2 definately had it better than those in Guantanamo today.

 

 

Those German and Italian POWs held in over 500 camps across the U.S. were sent out to harvest and process crops, build roads and waterways, fell trees, roof barns, etc. In the process, they formed significant, often decades long friendships with “the enemy
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I know the title of the thread but surely one needs to look at the broader picture before casting doubts over the actions of one nation

It's a thread about Guantanamo, FFS, casting doubts over the actions of the current US government in regard to Guantanamo

Since when was there a rule that a thread *has* to go off topic? :blink:

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You're right there... the Axis POWs in the US during/after WW2 definately had it better than those in Guantanamo today. [http://www.traces.org/germanpows.html]

It's funny how when it's convenient nobody really knows what those scheming fascists are up to in there, yet when it is, special people come out of the woodwork with inside knowledge meticulously detailing how many times a day inmates are allowed to brush their teeth. Or are they even allowed to do that?! :o

 

Remember that Axis POWs were real POWs, not the riffraff that's at Gitmo and that you bringing the issue of American treatments POWs in World War II demonstrates that even back then the US was way ahead of everyone else ethically. The original comparison came up when, in response to people alleging that Guantanamo was worse than WWII, I mentioned that all you need to do is look at the number of German POWs who made it back from Russia, and vice-versa. As I said, Gitmo is a holiday camp, comparatively speaking.

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You are also forgetting that a lot of, say, the German POW's during WWII were actually thankful for being captured in a war they did not really want to fight but had no choice... They were treated a hell of a lot better than they were on the battlefront...

 

A lot of the gitmo residents have been brainwashed to the extent that they only think as they are trained to...

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You are also forgetting that a lot of, say, the German POW's during WWII were actually thankful for being captured in a war they did not really want to fight but had no choice... They were treated a hell of a lot better than they were on the battlefront...

Um... not on The Eastern Front.

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NO. Not on the Eastern front. I should have mentioned that. But this thread is all about the US treatment of the gitmo inmates. We are not allowed to talk about anything else

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They are smart, they are creative, they are committed," Admiral Harris said. "They have no regard for life, neither ours nor their own.

My Webpage

 

!!

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Remember that Axis POWs were real POWs, not the riffraff that's at Gitmo and that you bringing the issue of American treatments POWs in World War II demonstrates that even back then the US was way ahead of everyone else ethically

So you're taking the whole line that the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to Guantanamo prisoners (or riffraff as you say since you've already judged them by the sounds of things). If you look at the definition of 'combatant' as defined by the Convention, as posted earlier in this thread, maybe you'd reconsider (but then again, when have you ever).

 

It would be more accurate to say that the US government of that time was more ethical. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply today.

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even back then the US was way ahead of everyone else ethically.

you really believe that don't you? Extraordinary.

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A lot of the gitmo residents have been brainwashed to the extent that they only think as they are trained to...

Easy peasy, then. The US just needs to re-program them to be goodwill ambassadors for the Americans and release them back out into the world.

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Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove, Pearle, BadBob...

 

I'm sure they'll all be rounded up in the end.

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So you're taking the whole line that the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to Guantanamo prisoners (or riffraff as you say since you've already judged them by the sounds of things). If you look at the definition of 'combatant' as defined by the Convention, as posted earlier in this thread, maybe you'd reconsider (but then again, when have you ever).

 

It would be more accurate to say that the US government of that time was more ethical. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply today.

you are forgetting the fact that during WW2 thousands of Americans were rounded up and placed in camps in the deserts of SW USA for no other reason that they were of Japanese extraction.

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