Posted 26 April Howdy to all, my lady and I wanted to get married, ideally here in DE. She (61) is from the UK and I (55) am from the USA. We both are permanent residents with several years of experience in DE under our belts. We were ready to got thru the legal loops here in DE, but the Ehefähigkeitszeugnis was a bit of a hummdinger, not impossible but daunting none-the-less, so we began looking for simpler options. As we had planed a trip to the states over Easter anyway, we had a look at the local options and saw that it was relatively easy and inexpensive in the county and state in question and then simply got-'r-done. Now, back in DE we asked the local Gemeinde (B.W., north) how an official recognition of our marriage certificate would look and we were told - NO. It can't be done because we both are not German citizens. OK, fine. Didn't know, didn't ask in advance, but in our defense, the Gemeinde didn't know either until they started researching the topic and also confirming with an office in Berlin. So, now what? Our goal is to be able to seen by all pertinent instances in DE as legally married, in particular for medical topics, but also for tax purposes, inheritance, as well as anything and everything else that might be relevant and does not occur to me at this moment. Family medical insurance is not an option as my lady is already receiving pension benefits that exceed the Geringverdiener limit. The main reason we are trying to get our ducks in a row is due to the scene some friends experienced when he was in a coma and she was trying to simply get a status update from the hospital - in spite of them having a signed Vollmacht the powers that be at the medical institution were not willing to talk the guy's partner - as they aren't married and the the Vollmacht wasn't sufficient. What would be the most successful method for insuring we can speak for each other in a medical emergency here in DE? Are there ways insuring our marriage is recognized in the eyes of relevant authorities and instances beyond simply presenting the marriage certificate with some serious finger crossing? What else might we need to look out for concerning our marriage being recognized? Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 26 April If you have a legal marriage certificate that should be enough. https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/visa-service/konsularisches/eheschliessung-node?view= Quote Validity of the marriage There is no special procedure or authority empowered solely to recognize marriages entered into abroad. The question of whether a marriage is valid is therefore always only a preliminary issue in connection with other administrative acts (e.g. change of name, application to start a family book at a domestic registry, change of entry on one's tax card, etc). This preliminary issue must be determined by the agency responsible at its own discretion. The basic rule is that a marriage entered into abroad will be regarded as valid in Germany if the legal provisions relating to marriage of that foreign state were abided by. In addition both the bride and groom must meet all legal capacity requirements for marriage under the law of their home states (they must for example be single, over a minimum age and not too closely related to one another). ... Recognition of foreign marriage certificates A foreign marriage certificate proves that a marriage has been entered into abroad. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 26 April ok. Thanks! Good to know. It seems, however, that I'm not the only 'unedumacated' one - the Gemeinde dude seemed rather uninformed as well. I also have to admit that the statement 'at its own discretion' leaves a lot open, which then essentially brings me back to presenting and finger crossing. Knowing, however, now that this is the law of the land, does remove some of the immediate urgency that we were feeling. So I guess, it's trial and error from now on? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 26 April Just a thought: Can’t you just show them an Apostille for your marriage certificate? That’s what we came with upon moving here and it was perused and promptly accepted. I ordered it from LA, as we were married in New Orleans eons ago. One tells the issuing state that the Apostille is for a specific country, Germany in this case. It basically assures that the US document is valid. https://www.germany.info/us-en/service/08-Documents,CertificationsandApostille/apostille-authorities-us/902204 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 26 April An apostille should be applied for IMO. You never know when you are going to need to prove you're married and any body can refuse to acknowledge a foreign (non-EU) marriage certificate if it isn't apostilled. My wife and I married in Denmark but we decided not to have the marriage entered into the German register even though this option is available to us. Why? Because you have to jump through the same hoops as if you were marrying in Germany. The Standesbeamtin in our Gemeinde advised us not to bother. My wife was able to change her surname using the Danish marriage certificate. It has been accepted anywhere it's been presented. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 April @LostInEurope01 I find a bit strange the answers you received from your local authorities. I and my wife are both non-EU, we've got married in my wife's country and brought the marriage certificate we received there to the Bürgeramt here in Berlin, we didn't even translate it, it was in English. No Apostille either. They accepted it, put it into the system, and since then we've been married in the eyes of the German government, filed taxes together, etc. I know that some people get barriers and headaches when trying to do that, but it is normally when a German person is involved. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 April 19 hours ago, murphaph said: You never know when you are going to need to prove you're married... e.g. when you draw your widow(er)'s pension, or even earlier. My FR SIL had to do gymnastics for DE when her Croatian husband started drawing a DE pension. They got married in DK. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 April Thankfully the Danes make it easy to request an apostille but it does involve sending the cert to Denmark by registered post. Funnily enough this is cheaper to send from Germany than within Denmark thanks to the horrendous Postnord prices lol. If we ever leave the EU to live elsewhere I will be sure to request an apostille from Denmark in the respective language. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 April No EU country can request an apostille for an EU issued marriage certificate since 2019. It will often be much cheaper to just apply for a copy with the relevant translation assistant sheet than having a document translated. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 27 April 4 hours ago, Krieg said: @LostInEurope01 I find a bit strange the answers you received from your local authorities. I and my wife are both non-EU, we've got married in my wife's country and brought the marriage certificate we received there to the Bürgeramt here in Berlin, we didn't even translate it, it was in English. No Apostille either. They accepted it, put it into the system, and since then we've been married in the eyes of the German government, filed taxes together, etc. I know that some people get barriers and headaches when trying to do that, but it is normally when a German person is involved. We needed it here, as 2 US citizens. So it's done differently in different places. And having it, as @murphaph and I agree on, is clearly the safest option. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 3 May On 27.4.2023, 10:45:16, Krieg said: @LostInEurope01 I find a bit strange the answers you received from your local authorities. I and my wife are both non-EU, we've got married in my wife's country and brought the marriage certificate we received there to the Bürgeramt here in Berlin, we didn't even translate it, it was in English. No Apostille either. They accepted it, put it into the system, and since then we've been married in the eyes of the German government, filed taxes together, etc. I know that some people get barriers and headaches when trying to do that, but it is normally when a German person is involved. Hey, Thanks for all the responses. I was AFK for a bit. Yeah, I was kinda taken aback at the following answer: Eine Nachbeurkundung in Deutschland Ihrer in den USA geschlossenen Ehe ist leider ausgeschlossen. Hierzu müsste mindestens einer der Ehegatten zumindest (auch) Deutscher sein. Ich habe auch versucht eine Ersatzzuständigkeit des (Ausländerstandesamtes I in Berlin) zu konstruieren, doch dies wurde von dort ganz klar abgelehnt. The colleague went further into the name change issues, but shouldn't be relevant for here. @Krieg Could you possibly provide some further context and/or information that might help me present a "case" to the local Gemeinde? I would much rather have this entered and accepted at a 'central' location in hope of removing the necessity of proving for every instance. Perhaps our situation is somehow different (country dependent?). I dunno. Just trying to get-r-done. I will, however, ask the county about an apostille. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 3 May 7 minutes ago, LostInEurope01 said: @Krieg Could you possibly provide some further context and/or information that might help me present a "case" to the local Gemeinde? I would much rather have this entered and accepted at a 'central' location in hope of removing the necessity of proving for every instance. Perhaps our situation is somehow different (country dependent?). I dunno. Just trying to get-r-done. I will, however, ask the county about an apostille. I've been actually married twice. Once in Denmark and once in Singapore. I both cases I just presented the provided document and it was accepted. I did it at my local Bürgeramt. I assume Denmark is "easier" because it is inside of the EU, however I've heard people getting headaches as well. That was some years ago, I've been married now for almost 16 years, so not sure if something changed. We didn't change names, in case that is relevant. Maybe ask if an Apostille would solve the problem. No way there is no solution at all. Or get married in Denmark. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 3 May 49 minutes ago, Krieg said: No way there is no solution at all. Or get married in Denmark Las Vegas. FTFY 👻 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
