fired

[Sherazali 56]

9 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Before her supposed lawyer informed her of her possibilities for getting rid of all of you. That's just stupid.

 

What is she accusing you all of doing that would allow her to fire you?

 

Don't know. As you can see in the letter, there is no reason mentioned, more of an agreement. Since we have decided not to sign this agreement to leave, probably now she might be looking to create a reason. I guess we will find out more tomorrow. 

[BethAnnBitt 2,953]

20 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Before her supposed lawyer informed her of her possibilities for getting rid of all of you. That's just stupid.

Exactly.  If their German is sketchy, how do these guys even know it was her lawyer?  She sounds like a real piece of work.

[Sherazali 56]

5 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Exactly.  If their German is sketchy, how do these guys even know it was her lawyer?  She sounds like a real piece of work.

 

My German is not very good, the other two employees speak very good German (C1). Plus, she did not use her personal email to send those scans, but rather through the common info@  email address which is configured on all of our laptops ;-)

[Brockman 222]

This is what I would do (disclaimer: I am not a lawyer but I work at a company that just laid off a bunch of people, including friends of mine): Acknowledge receipt of the letter but definitely do not sign it, and don't give any indication about signing it. By law you have 3 weeks to answer (so I've been told). If you have to face your boss in person, answer her (illegal) threats by nodding politely but definitely do not give in to any pressure to sign, try to say as little as possible. Save any email communication you get from your boss, and communicate in a way that there is a paper trail. In fact, try not to further communicate with this person if possible. Do as slammer above says and go to your Hausartzt and tell them you are suffering from stress and that you need to be written off sick from work, get a sick note, keep a copy for yourself, and post it to your employer via Einschreiben. Contact a lawyer specializing in Arbeitsrecht (this will be worth the investment) to get advice and at least get this lawyer to write a letter on your behalf (that could cost anywhere from 200 € to 500 €, and way more if your boss wants to pursue this matter in court - which is extremely unlikely). Since she sent you an Aufhebengsvertag it is unlikely that will get a 'fristlose Kündigung'(termination with cause) or else they would have done that from the beginning. Set your work email out of office and switch your work phone off and wait for their reply, and start looking for a new job. Good luck!

[murphaph 9,814]

It should be noted, that if the actual position is gone (redundancy) then there will be nothing you can do to prevent the loss of your job in reality. The company is just too small for all that. It would be a good idea to start thinking about what you would accept as "compensation". It's not at all unreasonable to expect to be freigestellt for the 3 months (and I would not accept any paid notice period less than this) so you have three months paid leave to find a new job and perhaps relax for a while. You won't be getting an Abfindung worth tens of thousands after working at a place for 9 months. If you go the Arbeitsgericht route you are suing to keep your job, not suing for compensation but your job is gone, one way or another. The task at hand is to decide what realistic compensation you'll settle for. Like I said in a 5 (wo)man company I see no prospect of a generous payout and 3 months paid gardening leave is probably as good as you can hope for but I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice!

 

By the way, don't forget that as soon as you are formally fired, that you should inform the Agentur für Arbeit and register as Arbeitssuchend. This will be important should you need to draw ALG1 if you do not find a job before your notice period runs out.

[Sherazali 56]

25 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It should be noted, that if the actual position is gone (redundancy) then there will be nothing you can do to prevent the loss of your job in reality. The company is just too small for all that. It would be a good idea to start thinking about what you would accept as "compensation". It's not at all unreasonable to expect to be freigestellt for the 3 months (and I would not accept any paid notice period less than this) so you have three months paid leave to find a new job and perhaps relax for a while. You won't be getting an Abfindung worth tens of thousands after working at a place for 9 months. If you go the Arbeitsgericht route you are suing to keep your job, not suing for compensation but your job is gone, one way or another. The task at hand is to decide what realistic compensation you'll settle for. Like I said in a 5 (wo)man company I see no prospect of a generous payout and 3 months paid gardening leave is probably as good as you can hope for but I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice!

 

By the way, don't forget that as soon as you are formally fired, that you should inform the Agentur für Arbeit and register as Arbeitssuchend. This will be important should you need to draw ALG1 if you do not find a job before your notice period runs out.

 

Thank you very much for the detailed answer. I  actually do not want to fight to keep this job as I do not want to work at a place where I am not wanted. I just want to have enough time as per my rights (as in this case 3 months as mentioned in the my contract) to find a new job. And as you rightly mentioned about the size of the company, I am not targeting any compensations either. I just want to be treated legally according to my rights instead of being bullied as she's trying to do in this case. 

[karin_brenig 708]

seriously, do not sign anything! Do not sign an "Aufhebungsvertrag", because that just says you forfeit all rights. Let the company fire you, if they want to do that, with the contractual 3 months notice.

If you decide to go to court your goal is not to keep the job. Your goal is to negotiate a reasonable severance pay - in your case roughly half a monthly salary.

 

You can let your employer know (verbally) that you will not fight the Kündigung in court, if they give you 50% of a monthly salary voluntarily, stated in writing. They know exactly (or will have their lawyer tell them) what your rights are, so they know that they can save themselves money and time by giving you up front what you would get anyways, should the case go to court.

[Dembo 525]

It's a company of 5 people and they're getting rid of 3?

Sounds like this company is days away from bankruptcy. So you might not be getting your 3 months, although I guess there's some kind of state protection that would give you something.  

[LukeSkywalker 7,630]

2 minutes ago, Dembo said:

It's a company of 5 people and they're getting rid of 3?

Sounds like this company is days away from bankruptcy.

That was my thinking too and would explain this erratic behaviour by the boss.

[snowingagain 5,354]

1 hour ago, karin_brenig said:

seriously, do not sign anything! Do not sign an "Aufhebungsvertrag", because that just says you forfeit all rights. Let the company fire you, if they want to do that, with the contractual 3 months notice.

If you decide to go to court your goal is not to keep the job. Your goal is to negotiate a reasonable severance pay - in your case roughly half a monthly salary. You can let your employer know (verbally) that you will not fight the Kündigung in court, if they give you 50% of a monthly salary voluntarily, stated in writing. They know exactly (or will have their lawyer tell them) what your rights are, so they know that they can save themselves money and time by giving you up front what you would get anyways, should the case go to court.

I am finding the first and second paragraphs difficult to reconcile.   Confusing.  Why are they going to court?  Why are you saying they should accept half what they are entitled to?   I can imagine if there was a legal  reason you were terminated that it might be worth offering this to the boss.  To avoid the hassle. 

 

[keith2011 2,648]

1 hour ago, karin_brenig said:

If you decide to go to court your goal is not to keep the job. Your goal is to negotiate a reasonable severance pay - in your case roughly half a monthly salary.

 

You can let your employer know (verbally) that you will not fight the Kündigung in court, if they give you 50% of a monthly salary voluntarily, stated in writing. They know exactly (or will have their lawyer tell them) what your rights are, so they know that they can save themselves money and time by giving you up front what you would get anyways, should the case go to court.

 

Sorry but I also don't understand where you are coming from with the half a months salary, the OP is entitled to 3 months notice on full salary!

[Krieg 15,027]

3 months of notice and 0.5 month of salary as compensation for getting fired.  That's what she meant.

[murphaph 9,814]

My concern would be that if the company declares insolvency before firing the OP. I believe it's tricky to get ALG1 when this happens but signing the Aufhebungsvertrag is out of the question. A fristlose Kündigung (even a legally invalid one) in the pocket might be of use at the Agentur für Arbeit. I'm nit sure though. But the advice not to sign anything under duress remains!

[klingklang77 501]

In order to get ALG 1, don’t you have to be employed at least a year? 

[MikeMelga 7,312]

2 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

In order to get ALG 1, don’t you have to be employed at least a year? 

I thought 2 years...

 

Oh, and get legal insurance! won't help you here, but will in the future!

[murphaph 9,814]

I'm not sure on the minimum contribution periods. The OP was working as a student and possibly these times count too?

[HH_Sailor 3,624]

ALG is a minimum of 12months, but there's a catch for non EU citizens. They require a resident/ work permit.

 

I assume the OP has this!

 

https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/social-security/unemployment-benefits-germany-arbeitslosengeld

 

 

[syedalisajjad 66]

If the months (3) for termination notice are added wouldn’t that make it 12 months?
 

Also, the termination notice must be in your mailbox no later than 31.03. in order for the contract to end on 30.06. otherwise, contact ends on 31.07.

[Krieg 15,027]

Some of you are mixing up ALG1 and ALG2 rules.  For ALGB1 you have to work for 12 months minimum.  How long you get ALGB1 depends on how long you worked and your age.  Part time is accepted as well.

[klingklang77 501]

32 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Some of you are mixing up ALG1 and ALG2 rules.  For ALGB1 you have to work for 12 months minimum.  How long you get ALGB1 depends on how long you worked and your age.  Part time is accepted as well.

 

I don’t think Werkstudent is included in that? He says part time, but 4 hours a week isn’t part time.