fired

[Sherazali 56]

Hello Every one,

So little background first,
I started working with this company on part-time basis in January 2020 (4 hours a week) as I was a student then. After graduation, my contract was changed to fulltime and I started working fulltime since July 2022. The first six months were probation period as mentioned in the contract, which I think have already passed as it is end of March 2023 now. But since I started  working fulltime, I had a feeling that my boss thinks I am getting paid too much now for the work I am doing (may be she was used to paying me much less as a werkstudent), which is ironic because I thought I was being paid less (b.t.w it was 2590 Euros / Month, and I am a non-EU student with German graduate degree).
 

So, today my boss came into the office and told me that I am fired. She gave me this letter to sign it. I told her that I will read it with a friend today (as my German is not very good) and then let you know tomorrow whether I want to sign it or not. So, she got very angry and told me that I am giving you 2 weeks so that you can find a job, but if you dont sign it then I will fire you with immediate effect and you can go home now. So, she has given me today's time to sign it or she will fire me with immediate effect.

 

I am confused about what to do now as I have been following this forum for a while and the one thing I have understood is NEVER SIGN ANYTHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
 p.s: It is company with 5 Employees (including the boss).

Should I hire a lawyer or something if she decides to fire me with immediate effect? What are my rights here? and I also don't have legal insurance.
 

[Sherazali 56]

and this is the termination clause in my contract.

[murphaph 9,814]

Don't sign anything under duress. You appear to be outside the probationary period and entitled to 3 months notice according to that part of the contract you have posted! You can decide what steps to take once you talk to someone but you should under no circumstances sign the Aufhebungsvertrag that has been presented to you and that you are being put under duress to sign.

 

Even within the probation period you would have had 2 weeks notice! What an asshole employer you have. 

[klingklang77 501]

You don’t mention if you have received warnings or not. I don’t think you have, sooo… 

 

No! Do not sign it! 

 

Refer your employer to 13.2: both sides have to give 3 months notice.

[Sherazali 56]

No, I have not received any warnings at all.

[murphaph 9,814]

First of all: Your job is gone but that's ok because German employers are crying out for staff. You will find a better employer. Don't sign anything. Refer your employer to 13.2 as kilngklang says and await their response. There is zero benefit to you signing an Aufhebungsvertrag unless there is an Abfindung or some other financial incentive, otherwise you should let them simply fire you from their side and then decide if you wish to contest it. The thing you have been asked to sign is a resignation letter!! You give away all your rights and jeopardise social welfare payments that you are entitled to by signing it. Do not sign it.

[Sherazali 56]

2 minutes ago, murphaph said:

First of all: Your job is gone but that's ok because German employers are crying out for staff. You will find a better employer. Don't sign anything. Refer your employer to 13.2 as kilngklang says and await their response. There is zero benefit to you signing an Aufhebungsvertrag unless there is an Abfindung or some other financial incentive, otherwise you should let them simply fire you from their side and then decide if you wish to contest it. The thing you have been asked to sign is a resignation letter!! You give away all your rights and jeopardise social welfare payments that you are entitled to by signing it. Do not sign it.

11 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Don't sign anything under duress. You appear to be outside the probationary period and entitled to 3 months notice according to that part of the contract you have posted! You can decide what steps to take once you talk to someone but you should under no circumstances sign the Aufhebungsvertrag that has been presented to you and that you are being put under duress to sign.

 

Even within the probation period you would have had 2 weeks notice! What an asshole employer you have. 

 

@murphaph Thank you very much for your guidance. I will make it clear to her that I will not sign it, and if she decides to fire me with immediate effect then I'm gonna talk to a lawyer. 

[Sherazali 56]

I am also thinking of writing an unofficial email about how I am feeling, how disappointed I am with her behavior and how she wasted my time with fake promises and everything. I dont know if it will have any legal complications or anything? or should I totally avoid it?

[klingklang77 501]

3 minutes ago, Sherazali said:

I am also thinking of writing an unofficial email about how I am feeling, how disappointed I am with her behavior and how she wasted my time with fake promises and everything. I dont know if it will have any legal complications or anything? or should I totally avoid it?

 

No, don’t write anything. 

[Krieg 15,027]

I wouldn't sign it.   That document is an Aufhebungsvertrag, it is an agreement to mutually end the contract bypassing what it was agreed before in your contract.   You should have at least three months notice if they fire you.

[karin_brenig 708]

Don't sign this Aufhebungsvertrag.

Even if the company then turns around to give you the three months notice, based on your contract, that still doesn't mean you have to leave the job quietly, if you don't want to.

 

Just saying "your pay is too high" is not a valid reason for termination.

[Sherazali 56]

5 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

Don't sign this Aufhebungsvertrag.

Even if the company then turns around to give you the three months notice, based on your contract, that still doesn't mean you have to leave the job quietly, if you don't want to.

 

Just saying "your pay is too high" is not a valid reason for termination.

 

Thank you very much for clarifying the situation further. To be honest, I don't want to work here anymore, if she decides to me the 3 months notice period as mentioned in my contract, I will accept it and look for another job.

[Sherazali 56]

UPDATE!
So, she has told the other two employees the same (to sign this letter today before leaving). We all told her that we will read it together with a German-speaking friend later in the evening (to understand it better) and decide whether we will sign it or not.  She scanned all our contracts and sent them to her lawyer (in front of us) and called him to check them and inform her back about possible termination possibilities. She asked us to decide by 9 a.m. tomorrow when we meet again (if we want to sign it or not), and she left the office (angrily) for today and went home (probably). 

[Sherazali 56]

She used the "fristlose kündigung" to do if we don't sign it. I wanted to know if she can actually legally do "fristlose kündigung" or if she is just threatening us so we sign it? 

[murphaph 9,814]

1 minute ago, Sherazali said:

I wanted to know if she can actually legally do "fristlose kündigung" or if she is just threatening us so we sign it? 

No she can't, not legally. She can give you a piece of paper that says your're fired, but that doesn't invalidate the contract you both signed. Just don't sign anything this woman puts in front of you. You can assume it is not going to be of any benefit to you and only be of benefit to her. Fristlose Kündigungen are for people who commit grave errors or steal from their employer or assault a colleague or something. A normal employee who has no warnings and has not done anything wrong cannot be fired in this way. 

[PandaMunich 16,704]

13 minutes ago, Sherazali said:

She used the "fristlose kündigung" to do if we don't sign it. I wanted to know if she can actually legally do "fristlose kündigung" or if she is just threatening us so we sign it? 

Please read this page on "fristlose Kündigung" by a lawyer specialised in labour law (Fachanwalt für Arbeitsrecht): https://www-hensche-de.translate.goog/Fristlose_Kuendigung_Arbeitsrecht_Kuendigung_fristlos.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp 

• Employers may be entitled to terminate the contract without notice, for example, if the employee who has been dismissed has committed an offense against property (fraud, theft, embezzlement), if he has insulted, sexually harassed or physically assaulted a colleague, a superior or a customer, if he has committed working hour or expense fraud or if he has feigned a non-existent incapacity for work (= called in sick despite being healthy).

[slammer 888]

Do...not...sign!! This... (rhymes with itch) is trying to pull a fast one on the dumb Ausländer and if you sign you forfeit all rights.

Then go to a doctor, Tell what has happened and ask for a Krankmeldung due to mental stress. That way you can’t be fired and all advantages said itch thought she had are gone and, by thunder, will she have some ‚splaining to do.

good luck.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

[HH_Sailor 3,624]

As I understand it, if you were to sign this  Aufhebungsvertrag you would not be eligible for

unemployment money for three months, as it would show that you left of your own will.

 

 

 

[fraufruit 42,166]

1 hour ago, Sherazali said:

She scanned all our contracts and sent them to her lawyer (in front of us) and called him to check them and inform her back about possible termination possibilities. She asked us to decide by 9 a.m. tomorrow when we meet again

 

Before her supposed lawyer informed her of her possibilities for getting rid of all of you. That's just stupid.

 

What is she accusing you all of doing that would allow her to fire you?

[murphaph 9,814]

Earning too much? It sounds like she thought the foreigners would just give up their rights voluntarily.