[Berlin] Secondary schools good arts program

[Pavo 6]

Hi, I couldn't find any recent discussion on that in the older posts.

Note I'm not asking about state vs private or international. I'm looking primarily at German state schools, international would be an added bonus perhaps, paid might be a blocker for me.

 

I'm looking for a decent secondary school for artistically (visual, graphic, performing arts) talented kid. It feels like it would be a waste and source of stress to let her go to gymnasium with academic profile. Some gymnasiums and sekundarschulen offer artistic profiles but looking at websites I have doubts about how good the arts tracks are. I am starting this thread hoping for someone with first hand experience to share.

 

Or maybe to put it another way - is there a way to know which schools alumni tend to be artists later on?

 

[kiplette 8,677]

Waldorfschulen?

 

eg. Die Schule im Überblick | Freie Waldorfschule Berlin-Südost (waldorfsuedost.de) There are loads of others in Berlin to google.

 

You want staatlich annerkant because that means their qualifications are accepted by the state as being the real thing. This is not true of all Waldorfschulen.

They are very artsy. There is a strange philosophy (Anthrosophy) in the mix, but I don't think teenagers who go to those schools give much of a toss about that side of things. There may be fees but they won't be huge and will probably be means-tested. Some kids love them, some can't bear the fluffiness. They are generally seen as rubbish on Toytown but not usually from direct experience. @dstanners had a primary school kid at one, but he chose to move for secondary. He may still know parents with older kids who would have a useful opinion about them.

 

I agree, having used 3 Gymnasiums between our kids, that although art is always offered, and theatre now is, these are not really the core stuff of German gymnasiums unless someone comes on to tell you of a specific school they know of. If there is such a thing, it probably is in Berlin, so you might get lucky 

[snowingagain 5,215]

Yep.  I know an actor who took this route.  They also have the usual Mittlereife and Abi (and some Fachabi).  Mind you, for some weird reason the only second language option was Russian, which was a pain.  But lots of art, lots of music and theatre available.   Cost varies based on parent's income.  They often have lots of outdoor activities, some have smallholdings.  Can suit some children.  Also, if they start to blossom academically they can take the conventional route.   But the schools do of course vary on how freaky they are, depending on the teaching staff.

[Pavo 6]

Thanks for replies! I read elsewhere that Waldorfschulen have more difficult Abitur. Also to get a place at a Waldorfschule the child would have better chances if she started from the Grundschule with them which is not the case.  

[Pavo 6]

I just double checked and the school near me accepts children from 1st grade, and while I imagine there may be a chance to join 7th grade, if there are free spots, I have to consider, that my kid would feel alien not coming from Waldorf school.

[dstanners 1,531]

35 minutes ago, Pavo said:

Waldorfschulen have more difficult Abitur

They effectively have two different ones. The "Waldorf abi", which takes up almost all of year 12 is the final piece of Waldorf education. However, in Germany the Waldorf abi is not accepted as a qualification for university purposes (I was told this is different in various Nordic countries). 

Consequently, in Germany, the 12th year is followed by the actual abi (the one that Gymnasiums do) in the 13th year. I was recently speaking to a teenager from a Waldorf school, who found it incredibly tough. The reason is that in the final year, all of the Waldorf teaching is out of the window, and they have to cram all subjects in a traditional learning outcome. A child familiar with traditional school would find this less intimidating.

 

41 minutes ago, Pavo said:

Also to get a place at a Waldorfschule

There is absolutely no hard and fast rule on this.  There are frequent new arrivals and departures. All you can do is call the relevant school and ask if they have places. Unquestionably, a child who has previously been in a Waldorf school will find it easier to transition into a new one, but otherwise I have seen various kids move across aged 10-13 without significant problems, and just a few months in they have got used to the various singing/dancing and playing of confusingly shaped musical instruments (at the time, there were no 14+ aged kids in the school I knew, but I imagine it would be the same.

 

The next thing for you to consider is whether Waldorf is right for your child...and you. Go along and take a look at the place. Speak with the teachers. Waldorf schools typically allow children to spend a few weeks seeing whether they fit in. You will also be expected to give up a chunk of your own time (not just money) to help the school. This will include, repairing the building, gardening, helping at fetes etc. 

 

For info, as @kiplette mentioned, my experience of Waldorf schools is fairly current. Both my boys started there, and I was on the Vorstand (which in Waldorf schools means personally liable for the school operations, not just a parent representative). None of us are involved any more, but I still have a few friends whose kids go there. Ultimately, it just wasn't right for my kids. Different people will think differently. Still, that's covered on a different thread.

 

Don't disregard all gymnasiums though. There is one in our town (for obvious reasons, not the one my kids want) which is heavily into arts. It is also a catholic school run by nuns though...swings and roundabouts! 

 

Ultimately, there is no substitute for calling as many schools as you can and taking a look around with your child.

 

 

[HH_Sailor 3,547]

Our kids are at Waldorf schools (just not in Berlin)

 

It's not for everyone, but kids are allowed to develop at their own pace.

At our school, around half of the year 12 class go on to take Abitur.

 

It is in fact the same Abi as all other state schools in Schleswig-Holstein and as @dstanners rightly points out,

it can be hard work cramming in Abi work into the last year.

 

On the other hand, a lot are happy to leave after year 12 and get good apprenticeships.

Their arts and crafts, music and dance will be appreciated and supported.

 

There may be a stigma in some HR depts when you say you're from a Waldorf school,

but of the students I've seen from our school, no one has had a serious problem with that.

 

Students who didn't start at year 1, still flourished. They were accepted and they accepted the class.

 

But be prepared to get involved. Unlike the state schools, Waldorf expects parental involvement.

You're joining a movement - not just consuming an education.

 

Try going along to their open days. Or just ring up and ask for your kid to come along for a week and try it out...

[Pavo 6]

And what you think of a following idea. Let the kid go to one of those schools without Abitur, with less pressure for academic skills, so that she gets more time in the afternoons for studying arts outside of school. Then worry about Abitur later. I imagine that wouldn't look good for HR depts too. Would it make it difficult to go to college?