teenager shoplifting

[Gambatte 897]

A 14yr old "friend" of my 13yr old daugther shoplifts.

I'm fairly confident my own child was encouraged to do it too and, not sure how much, she probably took part in it. I learnt this indirectly (please don't ask).

 

We believe we have been good parents. Our finances are ok. We are devastated.

 

I think young people shoplifting are not particularly smart and the likelihood they get caught is high. In fact, I think this "friend" was caught already, Rossmann, which I'm very happy about.

 

On the other hand, I also guess the values involved are too low to justify police doing anything about it. So if they're caught and not much happens, this would be very bad because it would reinforce the criminal behaviour, so maybe even worse than them NOT getting caught. At least I hope parents are called, I would make sure something appropriate does happen, though again maybe they don't even bother calling the parents.

 

Comments?

[HEM 11,070]

Shoplifting is a first step down the slippery slope...

[Gambatte 897]

Suppose they get caught.

What next?

[yesterday 1,979]

Maybe talk to your child about this issue in general terms, do not talk about the friend, just say you heard this is happening from other parents.  Make it plain to them that you would be very un-happy if they got to know anyone who was doing that,  and it is totally wrong.

 

You could also talk about some restrictions that could be made in general terms, if you got to know of a shoplifting kid was around, things like removing their mobile  phone for a while or cutting the allowance they get each week or things that maybe be personal to them.  I guess you know what your kid would miss

[Gambatte 897]

8 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Maybe talk to your child about this issue in general terms, do not talk about the friend, just say you heard this is happening from other parents.  Make it plain to them that you would be very un-happy if they got to know anyone who was doing that,  and it is totally wrong.

 

You could also talk about some restrictions that could be made in general terms, if you got to know of a shoplifting kid was around, things like removing their mobile  phone for a while or cutting the allowance they get each week or things that maybe be personal to them.  I guess you know what your kid would miss

 

Thanks a lot.

I did consider removing smartphone (well, done it already a few times), and it proved not a good move. With a smartphone we can stay in contact, and we know where she is. So I rather prefer she keeps it.

Cutting Taschengeld maybe, but not sure it would help either.

We will speak more, saying like "we know some kids do it, here are some reasons why it's bad...". Of course it's going to be hard to strike the appropriate conversation but hey this is part of parenting. 

 

One added difficulty is that she doesn't know that I know. If I reveal this I will lose access to a source of information...

[Gambatte 897]

My fav action would be breaking all their bones in a million small parts each, but not sure this would be either allowed or helpful.

[dstanners 1,529]

I agree with @yesterday that you should have a chat with your child in general terms only, and that you should definitely bring it up by saying you heard about "this sort of thing" happening from other parents. Don't accuse your child though, even if you believe she was involved, or that will just get them to clam up.

 

In addition to saying that you are hearing that various children are doing it, and it would make you very unhappy, and it is wrong, it may also be worth trying to get your child to speak about it.

 

Why not ask them:

1) "why do you think anyone your age would do it?" They might provide you with some ideas that could help.

2) "What do you think the consequences are, not just today, but also for the longer term?" Without lecturing, you could add in a few of your own comments, so that your child understands that even if today it is just a slap on the wrist, getting a criminal record could have more serious longer term consequences.

3) "Given how serious it is, how do you think you could help someone your age from stopping shop lifting?" Get them to think of ways to help themselves/their friends.

 

When starting the conversation, make sure you are sitting next to, rather than opposite, your child or perhaps even doing something else in the room, and don't look them in the eyes. The conversation is less likely to go well if it seems confrontational.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Gambatte 897]

@dstanners

thanks a lot, excellent post

[yesterday 1,979]

2 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

Thanks a lot.

I did consider removing smartphone (well, done it already a few times), and it proved not a good move. With a smartphone we can stay in contact, and we know where she is. So I rather prefer she keeps it.

Cutting Taschengeld maybe, but not sure it would help either.

We will speak more, saying like "we know some kids do it, here are some reasons why it's bad...". Of course it's going to be hard to strike the appropriate conversation but hey this is part of parenting. 

 

My fav would be breaking all their bones in a million small parts each, but again not sure this would be either allowed or appropriate.

 

Maybe not the best thing to do 

 

2 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

One added difficulty is that she doesn't know that I know. If I reveal this I will lose access to a source of information...

 

I know its difficult, and I know you do not really know, your daughter is doing it either, that why you have to chat in general terms, but I think its worth doing before you get a call prom the police. Some shops will call the police as a deterrent, even for small value items. You and your wife must known what your daughter would really miss.

[LeonG 14,797]

2 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

We will speak more, saying like "we know some kids do it, here are some reasons why it's bad...". Of course it's going to be hard to strike the appropriate conversation but hey this is part of parenting. 

 

You could mention over dinner that you were at a store and saw someone (teens?) get caught for shoplifting.  Then continue that conversation etc.

[Krieg 14,926]

It is indeed a very complicated situation.   I disagree with actions like taking the smartphone or the pocket money, I always prefer positive reinforcement over punishment, and specially because your kid is now a teenager, that kind of punishment won't bring anything positive and will create resentment.    I do not agree either with making up stories to start the conversation, if you lie and your kid finds out the kid will be very disappointed and you will be caught doing things you won't like when the kid does them.

 

But only you know what is best in your case because you know your own kid.  I might even take different action depending on which of my two kids was involved in the situation.   I guess the action I would take is just talking to the kid, say what you know without revealing details of the source and try to make the how unimportant and pointing out what matters is to learn from the situation and correct potential problems.   To one of my kids I would ask directly about the involvement and I would assume the kid is honest in the answers, with the other one I wouldn't bother to ask because I know the answer I might get is not the honest one.

[kiplette 8,676]

1 hour ago, yesterday said:

Some shops will call the police as a deterrent, even for small value items.

 

This. 

 

Paps is an ex-copper. One weekend, when he was away, I was in Marktkauf with the kids, and as we went through the tills and into the end zone where the bakery and newsagents etc are, I saw kid#2, 8 or 9 yrs old at the time, fiddling with something in his pocket. Turned out to be a small toy, can't remember what now, there is a more detailed post somewhere on here, can't find it, doesn't really matter. Anyway, got him to put it back straight away. Told him that was actual stealing, he's lucky it didn't go massive, adults get put in jail for that - there is no such thing as victimless crime, can't honestly remember the exact horrors I described (cutting hands off? maybe?) but the main thing being that when Paps came home a couple of days later, he phoned the police and asked if anyone would take some time to scare the living daylights out of kid#2 which is what he and his copper mates used to do for people back in the day, to put the kids off ever doing it again, without taking actual action against them.

 

Anyway, having started asking these questions of the local German police here, it became clear that they wanted to actually charge the kid with theft, because he had passed the tills with the item in his pocket and therefore done a crime.  Eventually an actual friendly human policebeing came into the conversation and agreed to do the scary cop thing, and Paps and kid#2 went down to the copshop for some therapy, and indeed it worked. Kid#2 went to Hauptschule along with the local stabbyMcStabface/shoppyMcShoplift type kids, and afaik never left the straight and narrow.

 

So - don't panic, kids are horrid, it's not your fault, they do dumb stuff, take a deep breath.

Also - the kid does need to know that if the Polizei are up for retrospectively doing an 8 year old for not-actually-in-the-end nicking a small car or whatever, then there is no lower limit to rely on - theft is theft, caught is caught, there will definitely be real repercussions and it is not worth it. We know a kid who was 'done' for stealing less than a euros worth of sweets. The amount isn't the thing, it's the attitude towards other people's property.

 

Although Krieg is right and honesty is the best policy, I would also tend like the others towards a vague 'I have heard from parents that this stuff is going on, I just wanted to make sure that you understand definitely that this is not OK before someone persuades you its cool' conversation. dstanners had some great conversation starters.

 

Good luck with it - better done soon before it goes horribly wrong. 

[snowingagain 5,201]

13 hours ago, kiplette said:

Anyway, having started asking these questions of the local German police here, it became clear that they wanted to actually charge the kid with theft, because he had passed the tills with the item in his pocket and therefore done a crime.

Yes.  This.  Someone here hoped to involve the police as they thought daughter might be spliffing up.   This is really to be avoided.  Really.   Glad that it worked out okay.

[Anna66 2,673]

3 hours ago, Gambatte said:

A 14yr old "friend" of my 13yr old daugther shoplifts.

I'm fairly confident my own child was encouraged to do it too and, not sure how much, she probably took part in it. I learnt this indirectly (please don't ask).

 

We believe we have been good parents. Our finances are ok. We are devastated.

 

I think young people shoplifting are not particularly smart and the likelihood they get caught is high. In fact, I think this "friend" was caught already, Rossmann, which I'm very happy about.

 

On the other hand, I also guess the values involved are too low to justify police doing anything about it. So if they're caught and not much happens, this would be very bad because it would reinforce the criminal behaviour, so maybe even worse than them NOT getting caught. At least I hope parents are called, I would make sure something appropriate does happen, though again maybe they don't even bother calling the parents.

 

Comments?

 

I would definitely sit down and talk to the child.

 

If there is no reason for the shoplifting for example (starving and need food, lack of funds for a luxury product) then I would also think about a child/youth therapist to make sure it is not the start of kleptomania. Talking to a 3rd party such as a therapist can do wonders.

 

I had a friend who had kleptomania. She stole the most ridculous items. She was caught so many times that they realised it was not stealing but kleptomania which was the problem. She was sent for therapy. Stealing is a crime and can ruin a young persons life. As said above, it is a slippery slope.

 

I hope your friend finds a solution.

[optimista 5,840]

I had a "friend" that age who once stole a kohl pencil, just to see if she could. When she got confirmation that it was indeed possible her curiosity was satisfied. End of. She did not turn into a thief, but did learn that it is not worth stealing anything - simply because it weighs too heavily upon the conscience.

 

As for police involvement, I second that you really, really do not want them in your lives. Do not assume under any circumstances they will be doing their job conscientiously, humanely, aptly or any other positive adverb. My experience of institutional failure at all levels - albeit in France - has been utterly dismal. Forget the authoritative, avuncular chat of yesteryear. You are more likely to be faced with a semi-literate yob in uniform keen to make a career at any price, scoring points any way he/she can. Including making stuff up themselves. Especially when they are handing foreigners. Sorry to say it but it is sadly true that they give you a harder ride - because they can.

 

Parenting a disturbed adolescent - and too many of them are - is shit.

[jubinjohn 239]

This gives me chills as a dad. I think @dstanners idea is great. As a teenage kid its better to be in the stealth mode. So cooking up an intro to get a good communication environment is not a bad idea. Important thing is the kid should be reminded of the risks for being around shoplifters .

Also, i think it's not a bad idea to express our genuine concerns as parents. The goal is she should feel free to come to you in case of confusion and she won't be punished for it. 

 

[jeba 4,347]

3 hours ago, Anna66 said:

I would also think about a child/youth therapist to make sure it is not the start of kleptomania.

For a one-time offence that seems a bit over the top. When I was 13 or 14 I was part of a group of schoolmates who decided to steal something (no matter what) from Aldi as a test of courage. I opted for a pack of chewing gums. It has never happened again.

[snowingagain 5,201]

13 hours ago, jeba said:

For a one-time offence that seems a bit over the top. 

Indeed.  I would say mad, crazy, over the top. 

[RajeshG 1,983]

Besides, other things, many kids these days do such stuff as a challenge - a new kind of thrill,  testing their computer games in real life. Any pep talk is not going to go far. They know the right from the wrong. But they also know right is boring and wrong is exciting. How are you going to talk to such kids.

 

I would prefer the kiplette route if possible. I myself had stolen some money from my dad in 3rd grade and i got a solid thrashing. He even pretended to call the cops to take me away. i got shit scared. That was the end of my adventure. Did i get life long scarred from this - no, did i hate my dad - no. 

 

But the path is getting more & more difficult for today's parents.

 

Maybe talk to the kids about the consequences ( which they likely know ). Give them alternate excitement -  volunteer work with ambulances, hospitals, rehab centres, animal shelters,  working in farms.

 

 

[optimista 5,840]

1 hour ago, RajeshG said:

... I got a solid thrashing.

They put you behind bars for that now. Thrashing your delinquent kid, I mean.