Posted 8 March Hi there! Im Chris, a musician living in Berlin, I was victim last week of a serious scam, I am a bit lost in what to do now, maybe someone here can help? I was waiting for a new card and new pin (from Commerzbank) to arrive by mail, which I ordered in early February, it never arrived, I even called them again and again to know about it, well, apparently someone got both the letters somewhere somehow, managed to activate my card, and made 3 huge withdrawals cleaning up completely my account. I lost like 5-6 times my rent worth of money! I'm devastated! Its been about 10 days already and I dont know where I am on this, Commerzbank has been very difficult to communicate with, specially cause my german is poor. They kept telling different things by phone an in person, its a mess, but I have already done the obvious, told the bank straight away (last Wednesday when I found out) about it, canceled the card, tried to get as much information as I could from them anyway, I called them several times.., went to the police, sent the bank the Strafanzeige (curiously I sent by email as the bank asked for and I found out yesterday, when I went personally to a filiale with a german friend that actually they didn't get the police report from email, but I know i sent it to the right email, anyway, the arbeiter there made a copy of it and put it in the system finally. Well, this same commerzbank arbeiter admitted he thinks I have little chance of getting refunded. What??? So let me understand, anyone can get someone mail, like a corrupt postman or the hausmeister son and find out a "card letter", which makes the person know there could also be a pin letter soon, then activate the card themselves and go empty someones account and there is nothing the police and bank can do??? Isn't it like totally absurd? I went again yesterday to the police to try to give more details too cause at the time of the initial report i also was alone and speaking with someone who didnt speak english so it was "limited". The officer yesterday said there is no need to collect more details, I will receive a call from another department soon he said. But he was very honest and also said usually the bank dont pay those back, but i should fight fot it, still make a complaint at the verbraucherzentrale to which I could only get an appointment for mid April and start considering a lawyer. Anyone has any experience with this cases? Know a good lawyer in Berlin for bank fraud and such? Any tips? Am I really screwed by the most unbelievable (and apparently easy!) scam around?? Any support is welcome really, I cannot believe there is a serious chance I dont get refunded when I didnt do anything wrong and the bank seems like having the most idiotic card activation system in the world! Chris 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March Ok, I'll bite but only deal with the opening paragragh. 1 hour ago, CBZ said: I was waiting for a new card and new pin (from Commerzbank) to arrive by mail, which I ordered in early February. Why would you be ordering a new card? They usually arrive automatically every four years. Did you not have an existing account with Commerzbank? 1 hour ago, CBZ said: and made 3 huge withdrawals cleaning up completely my account. Ah! So you do have an account with Commerzbank. I repeat my question; why were you ordering a new card? 1 hour ago, CBZ said: I went again yesterday to the police to try to give more details too cause at the time of the initial report i also was alone and speaking with someone who didnt speak english. I live in a semi-rural town (pop. 50k) where all the cops speak English. You live in the capital of Germany. I think we need to ask @fraufruit to turn her bullshit detector on. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 25 minutes ago, Chelski said: Ok, I'll bite but only deal with the opening paragragh. Why would you be ordering a new card? They usually arrive automatically every four years. Did you not have an existing account with Commerzbank? Ah! So you do have an account with Commerzbank. I repeat my question; why were you ordering a new card? I live in a semi-rural town (pop. 50k) where all the cops speak English. You live in the capital of Germany. I think we need to ask @fraufruit to turn her bullshit detector on. How unhelpful. If you think this post is bait or trolling, just report it and ignore. No need to call on the TT police for backup. People order new cards when they are lost or stolen. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 13 hours ago, Astridx said: How unhelpful. If you think this post is bait or trolling, just report it and ignore. No need to call on the TT police for backup. People order new cards when they are lost or stolen. Because it is fun. And why not. Helps them clarify their story for the bank and police. 15 hours ago, CBZ said: So let me understand, anyone can get someone mail, like a corrupt postman or the hausmeister son and find out a "card letter", which makes the person know there could also be a pin letter soon, then activate the card themselves and go empty someones account and there is nothing the police and bank can do??? Isn't it like totally absurd? Does does not make sense, as Commerzbank send the PIN letter first. Really. So unless the dodgy Hausmeister son or whoever is opening ALL bank letters, hoping one might be a PIN, there would be a heap of bank letters not arriving. 14 hours ago, CBZ said: its a mess, but I have already done the obvious, told the bank straight away (last Wednesday when I found out) about it, canceled the card, How did he "find out" the dosh was gone if he did not have a card? Odd wording. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 2 minutes ago, snowingagain said: Does does not make sense, as Commerzbank send the PIN letter first. I recently ordered a new card from Commerzbank and the card came first and then the PIN. Naturally, I found my lost card a few days later. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 13 hours ago, fraufruit said: I recently ordered a new card from Commerzbank and the card came first and then the PIN. Naturally, I found my lost card a few days later. Funny, Commerzbank says they do the opposite. My other bank, your old PIN works. They used to make you go to the bank to say you had received the card, which was a pain. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March Most of my banks make you login and activate the card from within the online bank, of course you need a password to get in to the online bank Does commerbank not do that ??? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March I always seem to need to order a replacement card before they expire because they stop working. I suspect it's because I put them in my wallet and sit on them. A replacement wouldn't come with a PIN, but I did order an additional Mastercard debit card a few months after opening my account and that came with a different PIN (annoyingly) - that could be just like the OP described. It wasn't Commerzbank but I don´t remember activating anything and everything was sent by post. Is it fraud if somebody's stealing your post? If you had the PIN letter and the card in your house and someone broke in and stole both and then helped themselves to your money, would you expect the bank to refund you? Don't think so. That would seem to be analogous to this situation. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 4 hours ago, Chelski said: Ok, I'll bite but only deal with the opening paragragh. Why would you be ordering a new card? They usually arrive automatically every four years. Did you not have an existing account with Commerzbank? Ah! So you do have an account with Commerzbank. I repeat my question; why were you ordering a new card? I live in a semi-rural town (pop. 50k) where all the cops speak English. You live in the capital of Germany. I think we need to ask @fraufruit to turn her bullshit detector on. I ordered a replacement for a new card that never arrived either.. I was on vacation for 2.5 months and only realized my card was expired early this month when I got back to germany, it expired in the end of December, I wasnt sure if I ordered a totally new or a replacement of the one that was already issued. Someone at the phone last week said no new PIN was issued, but then two days ago at the bank an employee said, looking at the computer that indeed a new PIN was issued. Im sorry to let you know, but a lot of german people in Berlin dont speak appropriate english, and that goes for many cops, doctors and bank clerks. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 3 hours ago, snowingagain said: Because it is fun. And why not. Helps them clarify their story for the bank and police. Does does not make sense, as Commerzbank send the PIN letter first. Really. So unless the dodgy Hausmeister son or whoever is opening ALL bank letters, hoping one might be a PIN, there would be a heap of bank letters not arriving. How did he "find out" the dosh was gone if he did not have a card? Odd wording. not sure what you mean, i have an app on my phone. I was going to pay my bills on March 1st and found it out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 3 hours ago, yesterday said: Most of my banks make you login and activate the card from within the online bank, of course you need a password to get in to the online bank Does commerbank not do that ??? I know, its unbelievable that Commerzbank dont ask someone to complete the activation process with the app! or going simply online.. :( 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 1 hour ago, Dembo said: I always seem to need to order a replacement card before they expire because they stop working. I suspect it's because I put them in my wallet and sit on them. A replacement wouldn't come with a PIN, but I did order an additional Mastercard debit card a few months after opening my account and that came with a different PIN (annoyingly) - that could be just like the OP described. It wasn't Commerzbank but I don´t remember activating anything and everything was sent by post. Is it fraud if somebody's stealing your post? If you had the PIN letter and the card in your house and someone broke in and stole both and then helped themselves to your money, would you expect the bank to refund you? Don't think so. That would seem to be analogous to this situation. Maybe its someone from the bank? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 3 hours ago, snowingagain said: How did he "find out" the dosh was gone if he did not have a card? Odd wording. You don't need a bank card to use online or telephone banking, or to visit the branch and get a statement. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March 1 minute ago, Astridx said: You don't need a bank card to use online or telephone banking, or to visit the branch and get a statement. obviously. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 March Oh I forgot to add something important, my name was not at the door since i came back from Brazil, just in the mailbox, because I moved right before leaving for vacation and my flatmate put a sticker with my name while i was away and someone took it out, then she put again and they took it out again, my flatmate has her own issues with the hausverwaltung and hauseister so communication is problematic, and I dont know yet who they are. But I dont understand why they dont let i have my name at the door since Im registered there (signed by the landlord). But I have received other correspondence just fine until this happened, so I was not stressing yet, its a temporary housing situation after all as im looking for a place for my own. So the new question is .. if my name is not at the door, even though it is in the mailbox (and I am legally registered there) .. does that give someone a "leeway" to steal my mail? Like a corrupt mailman? I must also say that I checked the mailbox everyday, and so did my flatmate. She thinks they never really got in the mailbox, it must have been someone from the bank or post. Honestly I have no idea, i cannot even imagine how can this have happened! Its mind boggling. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 March Moral of the story: take out insurance for credit card fraud (e.g. this one: https://www.cosmosdirekt.de/schaden-melden/kontoschutzbrief/) and have a spending limit on your card not exceeding the amount the insurance covers. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 March Moral of the story is do not bank with Commerzbank bank, go to a bank that needs an app for verification of transactions and ordering of a new bank card / PIN. Tell Commerzbank why you are leaving. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 March Card misuse: When thieves steal giro and credit cards from the post office | Stiftung Warentest So, the bank is liable, just they may be a bit tardy about coughing up. Though if they can show they sent the PIN first it might take longer? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 March 4 hours ago, snowingagain said: Card misuse: When thieves steal giro and credit cards from the post office | Stiftung Warentest So, the bank is liable, just they may be a bit tardy about coughing up. Though if they can show they sent the PIN first it might take longer? thank you so much for this, at leats it shows Im not a special victim and this is kinda common. I wrote to them, there is an email for it. And I might also write a complaint to the post office. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 March 4 hours ago, snowingagain said: Card misuse: When thieves steal giro and credit cards from the post office | Stiftung Warentest So, the bank is liable, just they may be a bit tardy about coughing up. Though if they can show they sent the PIN first it might take longer? could they argue that since my name is not at the gate ring/doorbell , only on the mailbox, that excuses them of being responsible? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
