Voting rights for UK citizens living abroad

[pappnase 2,580]

This song is a good reflection of my thoughts on the UK and voting.

 

 

 

 

Sample lyrics:-

 

And she took them by surprise
When she took them by the throat
And said 'My friend, you're not allowed to vote'

...

...

And even when their kids were starving
They all thought the queen was charming

 

[matt.berlin 5]

20 hours ago, Feierabend said:

What constituency would we vote in? The last place in which we lived?

(Maybe Theresa May could found a new 'Citizens of Nowhere' constituency.)

 

Yes, it would be the last constituency that you lived in. For people already on the Electoral Register that is less problematic but for people who aren't, you would need to show proof of where you last lived in the UK. That's one of the issues that British in Europe is looking at: what evidence would be required and are they things that people would actually have available to show. The survey also asks about how you vote or would like to vote. For example, whilst it isn't part of the current proposals, some countries allow electronic voting or in-person voting in your country of residence (e.g. at the Embassy or Consulate).

 

Some countries have specific constituencies for their citizens abroad, e.g. France has 11 constituencies for the Assemblée nationale (French citizens in Germany are covered by a constituency covering Central Europe and the Balkans).

[Astridx 40]

1 hour ago, europaeuropa said:

If little value is placed on the British passport and rights connected to it, I wonder whether dual German / Brits will actively use their German passport to enter the UK.

 

I think that's a walk the talk moment for those who have a British passport, but don't value it or voting rights in the UK. Until they do...

 

Whichever is easier or cheaper to replace in the case it is lost or stolen.

[snowingagain 5,215]

Forget lost or stolen.  Why have one if you do not need it?  They are expensive.

[pappnase 2,580]

12 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Why have one if you do not need it?

Yeah exactly, you are required to have a german government issued ID as a German citizen, so why bother with the expense of the UK one.

Back on topic, even in respect of showing up to vote in the UK, your German ID card and/or passport would be accepted forms of photo ID.

 

[snowingagain 5,215]

Not sure about the ID card?  But a passport for sure will work.  

[europaeuropa 120]

1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

Sorry, not sure I am clear about what you mean.  Do you mean not wanting to spend lots of dosh on a British passport means you do not care about the UK?

No, I mean holding onto British nationality if one:

 

- doesn't value it in the slightest

 

- doesn't care about using their vote not just for themselves, but also maybe tactically and selflessly for the indirect advantage of others resident in the UK incl. loved ones who may have to face the political music they were lucky to escape abroad

 

- doesn't care about anything related to UK democracy or a part they are blocked from participating in. If they could, they would even go far as to wish for no voting rights at all - not even for the first 15 years abroad - for Brits abroad

 

- doesn't care about rights attached to the British passport holder regardless of where they are located

 

... but oddly still holds onto a British nationality despite being so vehemently can't-give-a-toss-about / anti- British nationality as above points, and when they could give up said British nationality voluntarily anyway at any time and just rely on the other nationality they posess.

 

That's what really doesn't make sense. If people go out of their way to state that their British nationality is next to useless to them, then why bother having it if it's that bad?

[Dembo 500]

9 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Not sure about the ID card?  But a passport for sure will work.  

I´ve never heard of this before so did some googling. And yes ID cards. Also says EEC driver´s licence and "biometric immigration document" so an eAT.

 

But how many people are going to do this?
 

Accepted forms of photo ID | Electoral Commission

 

[europaeuropa 120]

45 minutes ago, pappnase said:

Yeah exactly, you are required to have a german government issued ID as a German citizen, so why bother with the expense of the UK one.

Back on topic, even in respect of showing up to vote in the UK, your German ID card and/or passport would be accepted forms of photo ID.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Only Germans resident in the UK before Brexit (i.e. with Withdrawal Agreement coverage) can vote with solely an ID card. And then, only for local elections.

 

If you are a dual British citizen first, and a German national second, and you reside abroad, you cannot rock up to the UK and expect to be covered under the withdrawal agreement as if you were a German resident in the UK, and therefore exercise ID card (instead of passport) rights for voting.

 

Besides any of which, you would need to be on the electoral roll as a German in UK anyway.

[pappnase 2,580]

Go look on the relevant website. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/voter-id/accepted-forms-photo-id 

 

• Passport issued by the UK, any of the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, a British Overseas Territory, an EEA state or a Commonwealth country

Note that 'EEA state' bit.
 

It's all moot anyway, I'm not gonna be moving back but if I lived back in the UK I could apply for the documents I need. 

 

 

 

[snowingagain 5,215]

42 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

No, I mean holding onto British nationality if one:

 

- doesn't value it in the slightest

 

- doesn't care about using their vote not just for themselves, but also maybe tactically and selflessly for the indirect advantage of others resident in the UK incl. loved ones who may have to face the political music they were lucky to escape abroad

 

- doesn't care about anything related to UK democracy or a part they are blocked from participating in. If they could, they would even go far as to wish for no voting rights at all - not even for the first 15 years abroad - for Brits abroad

 

- doesn't care about rights attached to the British passport holder regardless of where they are located

 

... but oddly still holds onto a British nationality despite being so vehemently can't-give-a-toss-about / anti- British nationality as above points, and when they could give up said British nationality voluntarily anyway at any time and just rely on the other nationality they posess.

 

That's what really doesn't make sense. If people go out of their way to state that their British nationality is next to useless to them, then why bother having it if it's that bad?

To be read with "Land of Hope and Glory" in the background.  Misty-eyed, fist clenched and held emotionally on chest. 

[europaeuropa 120]

1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

To be read with "Land of Hope and Glory" in the background.  Misty-eyed, fist clenched and held emotionally on chest. 

 

^ If there's such hatred for the UK perhaps reflected in such out-of-nowhere statements, I really don't get why someone would hold onto British nationality.

 

Either you value the nationality / nationalities you have (though you may despise current governments), or you don't. And if you don't, then why hold onto the nationalities you don't value?

 

Yoo could replace British with German in the entire above list of points, and if you don't value German citizenship, the same would apply. Why bother having both?

 

Surely if you've all but checked out of the concept of democracy (and voting rights attached to nationality) then why not just surrender all nationalities and declare yourself stateless?

 

Dual citizenship is a privillege that many can't have. It seems bonkers to go to the trouble of obtaining dual nationality and then not use that privillege for good.

 

Yes, it sounds very altruistic. I guess I'm from a school of thought that sometimes would like to be self-less and take advantage of (and fight for) voting rights from abroad to then vote for parties or referenda that *don't* make the lives of EU expats in UK difficult, rather than selfishly sitting back, throwing hands in the air, as if to say "to hell with the lot of you", I don't even want to vote in UK. In fact, someone please remove or limit my UK voting ability (and that of other Brits abroad) immediately. 

[snowingagain 5,215]

Have you been on the sherry?

[pappnase 2,580]

5 hours ago, europaeuropa said:

That's what really doesn't make sense. If people go out of their way to state that their British nationality is next to useless to them, then why bother having it if it's that bad?

I missed that one, but I can answer easily. 2 reasons. 1, It would actually cost me money to get rid of it. 2. I want the same rights as I had before the brexit vote. Next to useless is not 'completely useless'.

 

[dbrayford 0]

14 hours ago, europaeuropa said:

That's what really doesn't make sense. If people go out of their way to state that their British nationality is next to useless to them, then why bother having it if it's that bad?

 

Not everyone has the ability to acquire a German passport and only has British citizenship and giving up my citizenship would leave me stateless. I would assume the UK or German government would let me choose to be stateless. 

[pappnase 2,580]

Yeah they won't let you choose to be stateless, but if you commit the right crimes and the press kick up enough of a stink the current UK government might make you stateless. Oh they will claim you were entitled to some other nationality of a country you never visited, but that's OK because the UK doesn't have to play by the rules anymore.

 

[Dembo 500]

13 hours ago, europaeuropa said:

Yes, it sounds very altruistic. I guess I'm from a school of thought that sometimes would like to be self-less and take advantage of (and fight for) voting rights from abroad to then vote for parties or referenda that *don't* make the lives of EU expats in UK difficult, rather than selfishly sitting back, throwing hands in the air, as if to say "to hell with the lot of you", I don't even want to vote in UK. In fact, someone please remove or limit my UK voting ability (and that of other Brits abroad) immediately. 

 

I see that the other way around. I chose to leave the UK so it would be selfish of me to try to impose my will on the people that live there. 

 

 

[yesterday 1,983]

18 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Forget lost or stolen.  Why have one if you do not need it?  They are expensive.

 

I do not consider them expensive, its about 100 pounds for 10 years, so its like 10 pound a year. You cannot even get a MASS of Bier at the oktoberfest for that.

 

I have considered getting rid of my UK passport, but its much harder to get a new UK passport than re-new an old one. I still have not decided if I will get rid of it, but for the sake of 10 pounds a year, I may just keep hold of it.

 

I remember when I applied for the last but one passport, you had to find a police man, a judge / lawyer to say say they known you and the picture is accurate. I manged to pay a lawyer to do this even though I have never met the person before, because he was getting paid to do it. But its getting harder and harder to get somebody to sign the photo. I asked several policemen and they said they would not do it because they did not know me. I think there will be very few people who can get a signature legally anymore. 

 

For re-newal you can fill out everything on line, an upload a picture from your mobile phone, its easy.

 

So for the sake of less hassle, if I ever need it,, I was thinking of keeping the renewal procedure running, because its more easy, for the sake of 10 pounds a year.

[Anna66 2,674]

On 28.2.2023, 20:36:14, matt.berlin said:

Up until now, British citizens have lost their right to vote in general elections and nationwide referendums (such as the Brexit referendum in 2016) when they have lived outside the UK for more than 15 years. This has meant that many UK citizens living abroad have not had a say in decisions that have a direct impact on their lives here in Germany and elsewhere. The Elections Act 2022 has now removed this limit and given people back their vote.

 

British in Europe is currently working to ensure that the changes in the law are implemented in a way that actually work for UK citizens living abroad, e.g. by highlighting any issues that would make it difficult to register to vote or to vote itself. To get a clear picture on the issues people might face, British in Europe is running a survey on voting rights, which closes on Saturday night (4th March 2023). If you are British, please take a few minutes to complete the survey: https://www.surveymonkey.de/r/BiE_Voting_Rights

 

Please also share the survey with other Brits you know living outside the UK (not just in Europe but anywhere in the world!)

 

Thanks for the information.

 

[snowingagain 5,215]

On 28/02/2023, 07:36:14, matt.berlin said:

Up until now, British citizens have lost their right to vote in general elections and nationwide referendums (such as the Brexit referendum in 2016) when they have lived outside the UK for more than 15 years. This has meant that many UK citizens living abroad have not had a say in decisions that have a direct impact on their lives here in Germany and elsewhere. The Elections Act 2022 has now removed this limit and given people back their vote.

 

The 15 year max is still there, for the moment.  Some more legislation needed for the "votes for life" bit, but it is in the pipeline.  Possibly this year.

 

Overseas voters - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)