Got to build a driveway

[Gambatte 897]

Our bloody Gemeinde is forcing us to build a second driveway / parking lot on our Grundstuck. Must destroy part of the garden, with the most beautiful roses. Energiewende anyone? No, they don't care. Very sad but hey I've got no choice, long sad story, please don't ask...

Thing is, I'm going to make it only to satisfy them, and in reality it'll never see a car, at least for the next few decades we'll reside here. So I want to make it as easy and cheap and possible. 

I still want Pflastersteine, not Kies, Kies just too ugly.

 

Question:
normally a depth of 30cm of sand/gravel/whatever, under the Steine, is recommended.
How much will things be different if I make it much less deep, say 20cm, or 10cm or 5cm?
Anyone have recent experience? 

Thanks

[RAMBO 103]

20cm of schotter, hire one of compressing machines from local baumarkt cost about 40 euro for 4 hours.

Then 3-4cm of splitt layed on top.

Then the Pflastersteine, then hire compressing machine again with rubber mate which stops the new Pflastersteine getting broken or chiped.

[snowingagain 5,201]

Can you build one that absorbs water, or will you also end up paying extra for subsquent run-off?    

[Gambatte 897]

8 minutes ago, RAMBO said:

20cm of schotter, hire one of compressing machines from local baumarkt cost about 40 euro for 4 hours.

Then 3-4cm of splitt layed on top.

Then the Pflastersteine, then hire compressing machine again with rubber mate which stops the new Pflastersteine getting broken or chiped.

 

Thanks and all good with this.

But this is the default, "good", way to do it. What if I insist in making it easier / cheaper / less work. How much less good is it going to be?

[Gambatte 897]

16 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Can you build one that absorbs water

 

This actually I would prefer. Not sure Betonsteine can be porous at all, though. A decent option maybe Rasengittersteine. My question is still for the Unterboden though.

[optimista 5,840]

Have you considered those cheapo honey combed slabs with holes in ? The grass... or daisies if you seed them... will grow through making for a more natural appearance.

 

https://www.pk-pro.de/JUW-Honeycomb-Paving-Stones-1-35-50x

[robinson100 12,792]

Oh, Optimista got in before me - yes, Rasensteine are really good, as they will save you from having to pay for the run-off rainwater to be treated - the water will just soak in!

My boyfriend has them and it saves him a load of dosh!

[agathaaa 13]

I'm a new homeowner and I'm surprised the Gemeinde can force someone to build something on their own privately owned Grundstuck.

[Gambatte 897]

OK, here the long story.

 

Rule from the Gemeinde is that every house MUST have at least 2 carparks. Not sure in the whole Gemeinde, but for sure at least in our street. And they count only if they are next to each other, not in-line (our carpark #1 has space for maybe 6 cars, in-line, still count only as 1). So much so for Klimapolitik and Energiewande, that (almost) everybody pretends to be in favor for because it's politically palatable, but in reality (almost) nobody give it a damn. BTW I'm a car-hate hard core environmental activist.

 

So we knew the rule all along. But at the time we applied for building the house we still asked to build ONE car park. As expected, application immediately rejected. Next we applied with TWO carparks, everything else same. As expected, application immediately approved. Then we built the house and we built ONE carpark. Knowing of course this could have caused us conflicts later on. Now 4yr later the Bauamt is asking "what about your second carpark"? 

 

So I've got to build a 2nd carpark, to satisfy them. Of course this means pacing the ground, few 1000s eur cost and several hrs labor, and many tons of CO2 emission. But hey rules are rules, even if they are bad for everybody.

But as I'm going to do this against my wish, only because they force us, and this 2nd carpark will never see a car for several decades to come... I'd rather build it cheaper and easier.

 

Klar?

 

[sluzup 249]

Does seem bonkers.  Do you really need to 'build' something? Assuming the parking spot is currently grass, could you not just put down some sort of mesh that allows you to drive/park there? 

 

Sorry, realized this is already mentioned- wrote the post a while ago but only just got round to pushing the button.

 

[Krieg 14,926]

Maybe just the path for the wheels?  2x 30cm or something like that?

[murphaph 9,650]

7 hours ago, RAMBO said:

20cm of schotter, hire one of compressing machines from local baumarkt cost about 40 euro for 4 hours.

Then 3-4cm of splitt layed on top.

Then the Pflastersteine, then hire compressing machine again with rubber mate which stops the new Pflastersteine getting broken or chiped.

I have paved my own drive etc. (ca. 150m² altogether with driveway and paving) so I can speak from some experience...the most important thing is missing in this description: some way to keep your paving stones in place laterally! You have to concrete a border in place, either kerb stones or you need to at the very least concrete the outer paving stones into place or the second you go over them with the whacker they will move all over the place at the edges and you will ruin your work. The border is actually concreted in first if you want to use your materials sparingly. You then take your heights off the border/kerb. The border is most of the work if you ask me. 

[mtbiking 1,883]

4 hours ago, Gambatte said:

OK, here the long story.

 

Rule from the Gemeinde is that every house MUST have at least 2 carparks. Not sure in the whole Gemeinde, but for sure at least in our street. And they count only if they are next to each other, not in-line (our carpark #1 has space for maybe 6 cars, in-line, still count only as 1). So much so for Klimapolitik and Energiewande, that (almost) everybody pretends to be in favor for because it's politically palatable, but in reality (almost) nobody give it a damn. BTW I'm a car-hate hard core environmental activist.

 

So we knew the rule all along. But at the time we applied for building the house we still asked to build ONE car park. As expected, application immediately rejected. Next we applied with TWO carparks, everything else same. As expected, application immediately approved. Then we built the house and we built ONE carpark. Knowing of course this could have caused us conflicts later on. Now 4yr later the Bauamt is asking "what about your second carpark"? 

 

So I've got to build a 2nd carpark, to satisfy them. Of course this means pacing the ground, few 1000s eur cost and several hrs labor, and many tons of CO2 emission. But hey rules are rules, even if they are bad for everybody.

But as I'm going to do this against my wish, only because they force us, and this 2nd carpark will never see a car for several decades to come... I'd rather build it cheaper and easier.

 

Klar?

 

you have my sympathy.. we have a double garage, which is handy for the truckload of bikes that we (ok mostly I) have.

[murphaph 9,650]

4 hours ago, Gambatte said:

OK, here the long story.

 

Rule from the Gemeinde is that every house MUST have at least 2 carparks. Not sure in the whole Gemeinde, but for sure at least in our street. And they count only if they are next to each other, not in-line (our carpark #1 has space for maybe 6 cars, in-line, still count only as 1). So much so for Klimapolitik and Energiewande, that (almost) everybody pretends to be in favor for because it's politically palatable, but in reality (almost) nobody give it a damn. BTW I'm a car-hate hard core environmental activist.

 

So we knew the rule all along. But at the time we applied for building the house we still asked to build ONE car park. As expected, application immediately rejected. Next we applied with TWO carparks, everything else same. As expected, application immediately approved. Then we built the house and we built ONE carpark. Knowing of course this could have caused us conflicts later on. Now 4yr later the Bauamt is asking "what about your second carpark"? 

 

So I've got to build a 2nd carpark, to satisfy them. Of course this means pacing the ground, few 1000s eur cost and several hrs labor, and many tons of CO2 emission. But hey rules are rules, even if they are bad for everybody.

But as I'm going to do this against my wish, only because they force us, and this 2nd carpark will never see a car for several decades to come... I'd rather build it cheaper and easier.

 

Klar?

 

I will play Devil's advocate for a second and give another perspective from our Gemeinde. The street my son needs to cycle along to get to school is full of houses where the occupants only have a "single file" driveway so what do they do with their second car? They park it in the street. The resulting sight lines are very poor and I genuinely fear a child will be run over sooner or later. Drivers rapidly accelerate to get past the long line of parked cars before oncoming traffic reaches them. I understand that you have no second car but the Gemeinde cannot rely on that remaining the case. What happens when the house is eventually sold and the new owners have a second car?

[Krieg 14,926]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

I will play Devil's advocate for a second and give another perspective from our Gemeinde. The street my son needs to cycle along to get to school is full of houses where the occupants only have a "single file" driveway so what do they do with their second car? They park it in the street. The resulting sight lines are very poor and I genuinely fear a child will be run over sooner or later. Drivers rapidly accelerate to get past the long line of parked cars before oncoming traffic reaches them. I understand that you have no second car but the Gemeinde cannot rely on that remaining the case. What happens when the house is eventually sold and the new owners have a second car?

 

That would make reasonable to ask for two parking places, but why they have to be parallel?   @Gambatte said he has space for six cars in line and that was not accepted.

[Gambatte 897]

@murphaph

you have my sympathy here. Fact is, we have one car in our family, and one licence, and that's probably already 0.99 cars too many. But sure, the Gemeinde sees things the way  they do...

[agathaaa 13]

1 minute ago, Krieg said:

 

That would make reasonable to ask for two parking places, but why they have to be parallel?   @Gambatte said he has space for six cars in line and that was not accepted.

 

If car 2 is parked behind car 1, and the occupant wants to drive using car 1, car 2 needs to be moved. Instead of dealing with such inconvenience, the occupants resort to parking car 2 on the street.

 

1 minute ago, Gambatte said:

@murphaph

you have my sympathy here. Fact is, we have one car in our family, and one licence, and that's probably already 0.99 cars too many. But sure, the Gemeinde sees things the way  they do...

 

Can you ask for a retroactive change to the plans. Sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission with property planning.

[murphaph 9,650]

4 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

That would make reasonable to ask for two parking places, but why they have to be parallel?   @Gambatte said he has space for six cars in line and that was not accepted.

It was the same when we built in Brandenburg in 2016. The 2 spaces had to be parallel because in reality they know that if you only have spaces in a row that requires shuffling cars around to get the rear one out that people will just park in the street out of convenience. In the house I grew up in it had 2 spaces in a row, which was entirely typical for Irish suburbia in the 1970s but virtually everyone on the street has paved over the grass to create two parallel spaces instead because there is insufficient roadspace for everyone to park their second car in the street.

[murphaph 9,650]

5 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

@murphaph

you have my sympathy here. Fact is, we have one car in our family, and one licence, and that's probably already 0.99 cars too many. But sure, the Gemeinde sees things the way  they do...

I can also understand the position you find yourself in. It is a roundabout way of implementing a pseudo-parking ban in your street. The fairer way would be to implement an actual parking ban, rather than compel you to build something you don't need.

[fraufruit 41,946]

OK, I have to ask, do you never have guests who would enjoy the 2nd parking space?