Does anyone know any good Steuerberaters who are experienced with veterans receiving disability payments in Germany?

[nickstraub 2]

Like the title states, I have been looking for a German tax professional who is familiar with the US-German tax treaty and how VA disability is taxed. I have read online many different answers, and so far most of the Steuerberaters I have contacted are not familiar with VA disability taxation. 

[PandaMunich 16,562]

I no longer accept new clients, but try Sarah Czarnowski, she has had such cases: https://www.czarah-steuerberaterin.de/

[nickstraub 2]

2 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

I no longer accept new clients, but try Sarah Czarnowski, she has had such cases: https://www.czarah-steuerberaterin.de/

Thank you for the help, I have reached out to her. Do you know any others who can help with this? Most that I contacted also say they aren’t taking new clients. 

[PandaMunich 16,562]

1 hour ago, nickstraub said:

Thank you for the help, I have reached out to her. Do you know any others who can help with this? Most that I contacted also say they aren’t taking new clients. 

Let's just wait and see what Sarah says.

She's your best chance.

[nickstraub 2]

On 12/12/2022, 11:04:56, PandaMunich said:

Let's just wait and see what Sarah says.

She's your best chance.

Unfortunately it has been a while with no response. 

[PandaMunich 16,562]

7 hours ago, nickstraub said:

Unfortunately it has been a while with no response. 

One day is not "a while".

 

If you don't get a response within 3 days, try calling her.

Your e-mail may have ended up in her spam folder.

[Petro6golf 457]

On 12/12/2022, 9:40:02, nickstraub said:

Thank you for the help, I have reached out to her. Do you know any others who can help with this? Most that I contacted also say they aren’t taking new clients. 

 

Fellow vet here. So it isnt taxed. You can live here on 100% va disability and do just fine.. you dont even need to claim it. I dont. Here is your issue: pretend you get 100% with the va. make it a round number and call it 30K euro a year. You get that 30k a year into your bank account and it isnt taxed. its like you take home 0 euros. but... pretend you get a job at the local warehouse making 20k a year. The Germans wont tax your VA but will use it to bump you into another tax bracket. so they will add your 30k a year in va income with your 20k at the warehouse and then they will tax your 20k that you make at the 50k rate. Thats basically it.

[BayrischDude 2,071]

9 hours ago, Petro6golf said:

.. you dont even need to claim it. 

The Germans wont tax your VA but will use it to bump you into another tax bracket.

Seems a bit contradictory, Mr Golf.  If it's not claimed (reported in the Steuererklärung) - which it should not be - then how can it be used to raise one's tax bracket?  The amount would therefore need to be known by the Finanzamt.

I wonder if you're thinking on DFAS Retirement Pay?  This amount should be reported to the Finanzamt, albeit not taxed by the Germans, but reported regardless.  But then again this is not used to 'bump' one's tax bracket. 

I am not a tax advisor, but this makes solid sense to me.  The Finanzamt looks at income from from retired US military living here similar but different to Bundeswehr soliders who get quasi the same retirement pay matters.  But with the US, the Finanzamt is content knowing taxes have been paid back to the IRS for the DFAS portion and the VA portion, due to it being a disability pay, is hands-off to both IRS and FA.  Germany wishes to be kind to its allies and not tax them twice - unlike the USA. The Finanzamt cannot use the DFAS portion to increase one's tax bracket or taxable income.  If it increases the taxable income, then by default the Finanzamt is levying a tax on income they should not.

So, back to your example above, that 20K warehouse job person would only be taxed on that 20k and not 50k.  Because it is unknown and tax free.

Could I be wrong here?  Of course.  PandaMunich will know better and have a much better explanation.  However, I am comfortable in writing the VA disability is completely hands-off and not reported to the FA.

[nickstraub 2]

On 12/14/2022, 10:54:28, Petro6golf said:

 

Fellow vet here. So it isnt taxed. You can live here on 100% va disability and do just fine.. you dont even need to claim it. I dont. Here is your issue: pretend you get 100% with the va. make it a round number and call it 30K euro a year. You get that 30k a year into your bank account and it isnt taxed. its like you take home 0 euros. but... pretend you get a job at the local warehouse making 20k a year. The Germans wont tax your VA but will use it to bump you into another tax bracket. so they will add your 30k a year in va income with your 20k at the warehouse and then they will tax your 20k that you make at the 50k rate. Thats basically it.

Thanks for the info but I’m a little confused. The example you gave means i would have to report it anyway to the Finanzamt so that they know to tax my 20k salary at 50k. 

[nickstraub 2]

On 12/15/2022, 8:37:13, BayrischDude said:

Seems a bit contradictory, Mr Golf.  If it's not claimed (reported in the Steuererklärung) - which it should not be - then how can it be used to raise one's tax bracket?  The amount would therefore need to be known by the Finanzamt.

I wonder if you're thinking on DFAS Retirement Pay?  This amount should be reported to the Finanzamt, albeit not taxed by the Germans, but reported regardless.  But then again this is not used to 'bump' one's tax bracket. 

I am not a tax advisor, but this makes solid sense to me.  The Finanzamt looks at income from from retired US military living here similar but different to Bundeswehr soliders who get quasi the same retirement pay matters.  But with the US, the Finanzamt is content knowing taxes have been paid back to the IRS for the DFAS portion and the VA portion, due to it being a disability pay, is hands-off to both IRS and FA.  Germany wishes to be kind to its allies and not tax them twice - unlike the USA. The Finanzamt cannot use the DFAS portion to increase one's tax bracket or taxable income.  If it increases the taxable income, then by default the Finanzamt is levying a tax on income they should not.

So, back to your example above, that 20K warehouse job person would only be taxed on that 20k and not 50k.  Because it is unknown and tax free.

Could I be wrong here?  Of course.  PandaMunich will know better and have a much better explanation.  However, I am comfortable in writing the VA disability is completely hands-off and not reported to the FA.

So basically your saying I don’t have to report it? Can I ask how you know that?

[BayrischDude 2,071]

1 hour ago, nickstraub said:

So basically your saying I don’t have to report it? Can I ask how you know that?

Researching, mostly.

First, read the treaty between the USA and Germany from 1991.  This was done to halt any potential double taxing.  Articles 19 and 23 most important to you.

Next, read this newsletter from 2017, which highlights some help information.  Go to page 2 of the article.

Then read this.  The Analysis is the important part. 

Next, read this from the IRS.  Page 2, Paragraph 'Terrorist Attacks'.

Then read this from an American law firm. 

Lastly, read this from the IRS, about half way down - VA Disability Payments.

The treaty stops double taxation.  But not always.  There are matters where both countries will tax an individual regardless of citizenship or residence.  But that is not important here.  You are an American living in Germany.  A veteran who receives disability and retirement pay.  First your retirement pay or DFAS.  As the US acknowledges it as income and subject to tax, the Germans will as well.  This income will be listed in your IRS tax return as income.  However, as you've already been taxed on it by the US, Germany will not tax it.

To the question of the VA disability pay.  This is not taxable income by the US and is not reported in your income tax return to the IRS.  As it is not reported to the IRS, it is not to be reported to the Finanzamt - Article 19 of the 1991 Treaty.

So, you have a job (20k Euro per year), your DFAS retirement pay (10K USD per year) and your VA disability pay.
1.  Your VA pay is not reported to the US or Germany.
2.  Your German job and DFAS pay are reported to both the US and Germany
   a.  Taxes are paid to Germany only for the 20k Euro job.
   b.  Taxes are paid to the US for your 10k USD DFAS pay.

[JG52 1,018]

59 minutes ago, BayrischDude said:

You are an American living in Germany.  A veteran who receives disability and retirement pay. 

 

You might want to read his posting history, which started in October 2020, before going too far down this confusing rabbit hole.  In his first post on 19 October 2020, he states he has a young wife, and on 3 November 2020 wants to marry his EU girlfriend.  The next day, she is his wife, and the day after that he will be marrying a German national and will ETS (no mention of retirement).

 

On 12 January 2021, he states he is an online English instructor and is asking for help with his German taxes.  On the same day in a different forum, he is still active duty with about a year to go before his ETS.  On 28 January 2021, he is now planning to moving to Germany (which to me implies he is not in Germany) with a student visa.  On 30 January 2021 he again states he is stationed in Germany and will ETS in about a year.

 

On 14 February 2021, he is a student attending a German university and wants to become a Polizei.  On 26 May 2021, he is again in the military and stationed in Germany.

 

On 10 April 2022, he is again a student living in Germany with a student visa.  By 27 September 2022, he is still going to be married to a EU citizen.

 

I tried to help him with a few issues, but gave up when the story kept changing.  Now I just read his posts for the entertainment value.

[nickstraub 2]

3 hours ago, JG52 said:

 

You might want to read his posting history, which started in October 2020, before going too far down this confusing rabbit hole.  In his first post on 19 October 2020, he states he has a young wife, and on 3 November 2020 wants to marry his EU girlfriend.  The next day, she is his wife, and the day after that he will be marrying a German national and will ETS (no mention of retirement).

 

On 12 January 2021, he states he is an online English instructor and is asking for help with his German taxes.  On the same day in a different forum, he is still active duty with about a year to go before his ETS.  On 28 January 2021, he is now planning to moving to Germany (which to me implies he is not in Germany) with a student visa.  On 30 January 2021 he again states he is stationed in Germany and will ETS in about a year.

 

On 14 February 2021, he is a student attending a German university and wants to become a Polizei.  On 26 May 2021, he is again in the military and stationed in Germany.

 

On 10 April 2022, he is again a student living in Germany with a student visa.  By 27 September 2022, he is still going to be married to a EU citizen.

 

I tried to help him with a few issues, but gave up when the story kept changing.  Now I just read his posts for the entertainment value.

Yes I can understand the confusion due to my post history. Those were questions I had about certain scenarios I could possibly be in in the future. I had pretty severe anxiety about what my future would hold when I got out of the military. I wanted to stay in Germany and was curious about all the options. I am currently in Germany, married to an EU citizen, and studying to get my bachelors. Hopefully this clarifies things. Now I leave the posts up just in case someone has the same questions I had.