All things Tesla

[murphaph 9,843]

The TÜV doesn't care about visual rust on the brakes of any car. All that stuff (steering knuckle, brake caliper, brake discs) are usually made of cast or milled steel. They all have extensive surface rust as a matter of course on pretty much every type of car. They put the car on a brake force tester and if it passes it passes. If it fails it fails. Usually they fail a car because of what's called brake-imbalance in that one side brakes much harder than the other. 

 

The suspension problems seem pretty widespread. I have googled a bit and in Ireland a lot of people had squeaking suspensions and Tesla replaced the control arms free of charge. The later control arms (they have revision letters on them) seem to be identical so the suspicion is they simply contain more grease in the ball joint as squeezing grease into the joint is a known DIY way to fix this problem.

[catjones 1,702]

On 3/23/2023, 12:01:58, catjones said:

Given the highly robotic giga factories,

 

On 3/24/2023, 7:34:16, murphaph said:

You insinuated that the cars (worldwide) were put together almost exclusively by robots

 

If you're going to retort don't interpret my insinuations into your favor.

[catjones 1,702]

2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Regarding quality difference between factories, there is a lot.

Apparently, these are distinctions without much of a difference, as per ChatGPT:

 

what is the difference in quality between tesla's built in germany, china and the U.S.?

 

As an AI language model, I don't have access to current information on Tesla's manufacturing quality in different locations. However, it's worth noting that Tesla has a rigorous quality control process that they implement across all of their manufacturing locations. They have a reputation for producing high-quality electric vehicles that are reliable and innovative.

That said, it's possible that there could be minor differences in quality due to variations in manufacturing processes or suppliers. Additionally, factors such as local regulations, labor laws, and cultural differences could affect the manufacturing process and potentially impact the final product.

It's also worth noting that Tesla has only recently opened its Gigafactory in Germany, so it may take some time for them to establish a consistent level of quality there. Similarly, while Tesla has been producing vehicles in China for a few years, there may still be some differences in quality compared to their more established manufacturing locations in the United States.

Overall, Tesla is known for its commitment to quality and innovation, and they are likely to strive for the same level of quality across all of their manufacturing locations.

[MikeMelga 7,325]

3 hours ago, catjones said:

Apparently, these are distinctions without much of a difference, as per ChatGPT:

 

No, each factory is very different and each production line is in a different state of maturity. 

As examples, Berlin has the most modern paintshop. Shanghai has mosf of the gigacasting. And Texas has the most recent 4680 batteries.

Shanghai is about to update the Model 3 production line to include gigacasting, while in Fremont they will still be using the old process for months.

Also Shanghai uses different battery suppliers. That's why the Performance Model 3 only comes from Fremont.

 

This is before we talk about people's training, suppliers, etc. A gigacast Model Y will have on average better quality than one without.

Another point is for how many months has that production line been active.

[catjones 1,702]

14 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

No, each factory is very different and each production line is in a different state of maturity. 

As examples, Berlin has the most modern paintshop. Shanghai has mosf of the gigacasting. And Texas has the most recent 4680 batteries.

Shanghai is about to update the Model 3 production line to include gigacasting, while in Fremont they will still be using the old process for months.

Also Shanghai uses different battery suppliers. That's why the Performance Model 3 only comes from Fremont.

 

This is before we talk about people's training, suppliers, etc. A gigacast Model Y will have on average better quality than one without.

Another point is for how many months has that production line been active.

 

ChatGPT was more succinct, but the same.  When someone claims that one country's Tesla car is of better quality than another country's Tesla car when the entire enterprise is only 14 years old it gets to be too nationalistic for me.  "Quality" of what?  Paint, Interior, Fit & Finish, Production Machinery, Marketing?  Who's in first place tomorrow; next month; next year?  It;s a silly pursuit.

 

[murphaph 9,843]

5 hours ago, catjones said:

 

 

If you're going to retort don't interpret my insinuations into your favor.

What is your actual point?

[MikeMelga 7,325]

2 hours ago, catjones said:

 

ChatGPT was more succinct, but the same.  When someone claims that one country's Tesla car is of better quality than another country's Tesla car when the entire enterprise is only 14 years old it gets to be too nationalistic for me.  "Quality" of what?  Paint, Interior, Fit & Finish, Production Machinery, Marketing?  Who's in first place tomorrow; next month; next year?  It;s a silly pursuit.

 

WTF are you talking about? Automation and part reduction always increase quality after ramp-up phase. Fremont is simply using older production lines which haven't been upgraded yet. China was leading in quality, but Berlin and Texas might get ahead. It's nothing to do with countries. It's about production line generation and maturity.

[mtbiking 1,904]

I’m still happy to have him in my ignore list, but he seems to think that increased modernization and automation is bad as you need much fewer  low paid workers (of varying quality and including some that actively dislike Mondays ).   That must be the reason why the Japanese car industry never took off.

[murphaph 9,843]

His basic point was that we should not expect any improvement in build quality from the Grünheide built cars because all these Tesla factories are automated. But they are not automated to the same degree, Fremont being the least automated and where most of the cars failing the TÜV came from. So we should expect an improvement in build quality from Grünheide compared to Fremont. He should just admit that he was unaware that the various tesla factories have different processes and varying degrees of automation and we could move on. I'm moving on anyway as it's a distraction now.

 

I do wonder as time passes will the used prices of Fremont built cars reflect the anticipated higher TÜV failure rates. One would expect the market to "learn" that Fremont cars are "likely to have problems" and for this to be reflected in the prices of those cars compared to Chinese and German built models. It seems that even the Americans think American built cars are least reliable:

 

Quote

Study - Best Auto Plants For Quality All Outside Of the United States - Lowest Ranked Vehicles Built In U.S.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/study-best-auto-plants-quality-all-outside-united-states

 

Even if German built cars aren't of better quality, Germans will probably assume they are as most Germans automatically think German cars are best, even where that reputation is not at all justified. I can certainly see a positive bias towards Grünheide cars developing.

 

[CincyInDE 3,311]

On 23/03/2023, 17:13:30, murphaph said:

One would hope that an OTA software update could make Teslas occasionally turn the regen off to keep the mechanical brakes in good working order.

 

There was a software update a few months ago that claimed to apply brakes when the battery was cold and/or full to give a consistent one-pedal experience. This feature hasn't made it onto my car (or any Model 3 in Germany I assume) for whatever reason. 

 

Think about people learning how to drive on a "one-pedal" car.  For most of us it's instinctual to slam on the brakes when necessary, but that muscle memory (via routine braking) won't get ingrained into new drivers' brains. 

 

[mtbiking 1,904]

Does anyone own a Model Y here? How does it handle? We’re going to schedule a test drive. Are you allowed for example to use the highway? 

[CincyInDE 3,311]

28 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

Does anyone own a Model Y here? How does it handle? We’re going to schedule a test drive. Are you allowed for example to use the highway? 

 

I test drove a Model Y from their location in Freiham, and I was able to drive it on the A96.  Unsurprisingly it doesn't handle as well as my Model 3.

[murphaph 9,843]

29 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

Does anyone own a Model Y here? How does it handle? We’re going to schedule a test drive. Are you allowed for example to use the highway? 

I wouldn't buy a car I wasn't allowed to test drive on an Autobahn to be honest. I would be amazed if they said no as the Tesla probably performs better on the Autobahn than the competition with better lane assist and AP software than the other manufacturers.

[MikeMelga 7,325]

5 hours ago, mtbiking said:

Does anyone own a Model Y here? How does it handle? We’re going to schedule a test drive. Are you allowed for example to use the highway? 

Drove one last summer and was a passenger several times. It doesn't have the same sporty behavior as the Model 3, especially on curves. But it's a more practical car.

 

Regarding purchasing a Tesla, there might be coming a new price drop in a few months, lithium prices are dropping. But if they can't match the demand, prices won't drop.

[catjones 1,702]

16 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

WTF are you talking about?

 

17 hours ago, murphaph said:

What is your actual point?

 

8 hours ago, murphaph said:

His basic point was that we should not expect any improvement in build quality

 

16 hours ago, mtbiking said:

he seems to think that increased modernization and automation is bad

 

Good god, did any of you read my statements and not my mind?  @MikeMelga you are repeating exactly what I am saying.

@murphaph @mtbikingcould you please quote just one of my replies before interpreting what I'm saying or thinking instead of just making shit up?

[mtbiking 1,904]

36 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Drove one last summer and was a passenger several times. It doesn't have the same sporty behavior as the Model 3, especially on curves. But it's a more practical car.

 

Regarding purchasing a Tesla, there might be coming a new price drop in a few months, lithium prices are dropping. But if they can't match the demand, prices won't drop.

ok, thanks! That means that at least I don’t need to worry about the prices increasing. My PV system will only be mounted in May and afterward I still need to wait several weeks in order to be able to use it even if everything goes according to schedule. I want to have an electrical car sometime afterwards, hopefully soon. We’re test driving a Model y, probably a 3 and some other cars.. we’re making a list 

[MikeMelga 7,325]

Be aware that Tesla usually gives you a Performance model for testing. This comes with large rims which are very uncomfortable. E.g. the Model 3 P comes with 20" rims, while the non-performance comes with 18" and is much smoother.

[circuits 311]

Not only are larger rims usually uncomfortable on an EV that weighs 1650-1850kg, but you get less range due to the increased rotational mass.

 

I'm rolling on 18" aero rims and have no complaints so far. Some people don't like either aesthetic but, you know, welcome to the 21st century

 

[catjones 1,702]

Back to the Future or Turnaround Fair Play

 

Rich Rebuilds Built a V8 Tesla

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRgOGGgisI

[keith2011 2,677]

On 26/03/2023, 20:19:05, circuits said:

Not only are larger rims usually uncomfortable on an EV that weighs 1650-1850kg, but you get less range due to the increased rotational mass.

 

Curious to understand what is going on here? Is it that the larger rims use low profile tyres, if so why?