German or EU citizenship without german language skills

[jubinjohn 239]

14 hours ago, MonikaG said:

Citizenship requires B2….. permanent residence requires B1….?Correct?

B1 + Einbuergerung test for citizenship afaik

[pappnase 2,571]

The language requirement for naturalisation is actually ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache  Or " sufficient command of the German language "

What that exactly means is not defined in the Nationality act at all, but it is widely interpreted to mean B1 because other laws use that as an equivalence. 

What this means in practice is that most people will need B1, but it's worth starting the process without it because they are allowed to grant you citizenship without the certificate.

 

Source: Law here https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stag/BJNR005830913.html, english translation here: http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stag/englisch_stag.html

 

For reference I got my German citizenship and I don't have any formal qualification in German.

[yourkeau 7,719]

On 10/22/2022, 10:02:07, scook17 said:

As a British guy who now has a brexit permanent residency in Germany, is there any way to get EU citizenship?

 

If you are ready to invest 1 million euro, a couple of EU countries will give you a passport without any residency or language requirement. 

E.g. https://www.henleyglobal.com/citizenship-investment

[yesterday 1,979]

When I was on holiday, a couple of years ago in  Cyprus, I did see many houses  for sale at around 300,000 Euro, the sign also states that it come with passport!

 

[LukeSkywalker 7,597]

Well, Brussels is against this golden passport: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_22_1731

 

Not sure how long this will last.

[Frantic 72]

Apart laws, rules and stuff like that I think it should be a form of respect to at least try to learn the language of the country that is giving you its citizenship.

Furthermore, it is not completely true that working in IT makes learning German useless. At least in my IT field major part of job positions requires a decent German knowledge because sometimes you will probably find yourself interacting  with key-users that don't give a crap about talking in english to explain me their business process and how they want that interface. They are germans living in Germany. It is fair.

 

 

And don't get me wrong on this. My German is not good, I find ultra difficult to improve it. 

[HH_Sailor 3,529]

@scook17

 

I was in IT but I needed German to talk to my doctor, my dentist, my cardiologist and most of the shops in town.

 

Try explaining to the car mechanic (or urologist) what works and what doesn't in English.

 

Or to join a club (or start even a club) you'll need to improve your language skills.

 

Duolingo is one example of an simple app that reminds you to spend a few minutes a day practising.

I'm sure there are many more. You may well never fully master der, die, das

 

But don't give up!!

[optimista 5,839]

Dunno how he is going to claim his pension... cannot see the average Beamte bending over backwards to speak English. By refusing to learn German he will render himself helpless and vulnerable in so many ways. There has to be a minimum, surely.

[LukeSkywalker 7,597]

43 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

 

You may well never fully master der, die, das.

Reminds me of an Italian ladyfriend, who always used the ending -chen, so das would be the correct article. Funny conversations sometimes.

[Fietsrad 385]

German is easy I think*. Dutch is apparently the language most similar to English, and German is very like Dutch.

 

German is surely much easier than Polish, Russian, Turkish etc usw.

 

* other opinions are available😉

[john g. 37,683]

30 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

German is easy I think*. Dutch is apparently the language most similar to English, and German is very like Dutch.

 

German is surely much easier than Polish, Russian, Turkish etc usw.

 

* other opinions are available😉

7 year old Polish kids are more fluent than I am in Polish! I speak not a word. Thus, Polish is easy and I am dumb!😂 And Polish kids are smart! Or something like that!!

[Dembo 493]

37 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

German is easy I think*. Dutch is apparently the language most similar to English, and German is very like Dutch.

 

German is surely much easier than Polish, Russian, Turkish etc usw.

 

* other opinions are available😉

 

West Frisian is meant to be the closest to English, but that wouldn't get you far. I've only ever tried to learn French and German in my life; both of which are closely connected to English and have lots of words that are the same or similar. Imagine if your vocabulary really was starting from zero and you had to learn every word. OTOH I often think German is enough like English to mislead you and you can get by reasonably well speaking German in an English way. If it was nothing like English maybe it'd be easier as you'd have to learn it properly.

 

Re: IT. I have a few colleagues from India who speak only English, and for the most part that's okay. It's an international company and the cross-site meetings are in English, as is everything that's written down. However the Germans speak German to each other and things related to just the German sites are typically in German. My first morning was an induction event for the new starters, all in German. I sat next to a poor guy from India who had to sit there for 4 hours not understanding a word. I at least understood 90%, although as it turned out I missed a couple of important things. I've experienced it when because of one person in the meeting everybody has to switch to English and I'm really glad I'm not that person.

 

 

 

 

[john g. 37,683]

22 minutes ago, Dembo said:

 

West Frisian is meant to be the closest to English, but that wouldn't get you far. I've only ever tried to learn French and German in my life; both of which are closely connected to English and have lots of words that are the same or similar. Imagine if your vocabulary really was starting from zero and you had to learn every word. OTOH I often think German is enough like English to mislead you and you can get by reasonably well speaking German in an English way. If it was nothing like English maybe it'd be easier as you'd have to learn it properly.

 

Re: IT. I have a few colleagues from India who speak only English, and for the most part that's okay. It's an international company and the cross-site meetings are in English, as is everything that's written down. However the Germans speak German to each other and things related to just the German sites are typically in German. My first morning was an induction event for the new starters, all in German. I sat next to a poor guy from India who had to sit there for 4 hours not understanding a word. I at least understood 90%, although as it turned out I missed a couple of important things. I've experienced it when because of one person in the meeting everybody has to switch to English and I'm really glad I'm not that person.

 

 

 

 

https://www.google.de/search?q=buying+a+Frisian+cow.+Eddy&client=safari&hl=en-de&ei=LSRkY8KgI9iB9u8P9eyxkAk&oq=buying+a+Frisian+cow.+Eddy&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwuAED-AEBMgcQIRigARgKMgcQIRigARgKMgcQIRigARgKwgIKEAAYRxjWBBiwA8ICCBAhGBYYHhgdkAYISKVkUII8WOJNcAF4AMgBAJABAJgBuAGgAcYEqgEDMy4y4gMEIEEYAOIDBSBAEgEx4gMFIEASATGIBgE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:58ab5cd0,vid:OeC1yAaWG34

😂

[Janx Spirit 11,070]

On 22/10/2022, 21:02:07, scook17 said:

Is this possible in any way?

 

As a British guy who now has a brexit permanent residency in Germany, is there any way to get EU citizenship?

 

No I will never learn German to whatever level. Honestly I don't need it in an IT role.

 

I would be prepared to take yet another degree, if taught in English. I wonder if that route might work? I have two masters degrees to date.

 

I even consider to work in Ireland for 5 years plus to get Irish, and thus EU citizenship again.

 

No, languages, and giving up Uk citizenship are no-gos for me. So what choices are there?

 

Suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

 One post, two pages of replies.. sock17 puppet?  

 

If not, fuck off and learn something more important than letters and bruised imperialism.

[john g. 37,683]

51 minutes ago, Dembo said:

 

West Frisian is meant to be the closest to English, but that wouldn't get you far. I've only ever tried to learn French and German in my life; both of which are closely connected to English and have lots of words that are the same or similar. Imagine if your vocabulary really was starting from zero and you had to learn every word. OTOH I often think German is enough like English to mislead you and you can get by reasonably well speaking German in an English way. If it was nothing like English maybe it'd be easier as you'd have to learn it properly.

 

Re: IT. I have a few colleagues from India who speak only English, and for the most part that's okay. It's an international company and the cross-site meetings are in English, as is everything that's written down. However the Germans speak German to each other and things related to just the German sites are typically in German. My first morning was an induction event for the new starters, all in German. I sat next to a poor guy from India who had to sit there for 4 hours not understanding a word. I at least understood 90%, although as it turned out I missed a couple of important things. I've experienced it when because of one person in the meeting everybody has to switch to English and I'm really glad I'm not that person.

 

 

 

 

'Tis only me again!  You've tried to learn French and German.

Now, I was an English teacher for foreigners for donkey's years. French and German. German has loads of long words, which our brains all suffer from😂.

 

BUT... I'll have you know, German-origin words which most English speakers know are SHORT .. ( eg, shit, piss, cow).. get my drift?😂

I once had a class of mostly beginners of English in London. The class was mixed: French and Germans! ( Difficult to imagine Germans of a fairly young age about 30 years ago being beginners but yep. French? Maybe not so much😂).

 

So, I had the brilliant idea of bringing into the classroom TWO newspapers: the Sun and the Times.

I asked the French to look at the Times' front page and how many words they could recognise - LOTS ( because they were long and French/ Latin based.)

 

And I did the same with the Germans and the Sun! Short vote-winning words! 3 or 4 letter words! 

Bias confirmation confirmed or whatever it's called!👍👍

[Gambatte 897]

On 10/22/2022, 9:02:07, scook17 said:

No I will never learn German to whatever level. Honestly I don't need it in an IT role.

 

Give me citizenship. Don't expect me to learn the language. I'm so cool I don't even need it.

Arrogant.

 

[HH_Sailor 3,529]

12 hours ago, Dembo said:

. I've only ever tried to learn French and German in my life; both of which are closely connected to English and have lots of words that are the same or similar. Imagine if your vocabulary really was starting from zero and you had to learn every word.

 

Quote from a Japanese colleague on my (beginner's) German course : 
"Monday and Thursday I take German; Tuesday and Friday I take French.

Wednesday I learn Spanish"
 

When asked how he managed all these languages - his reply was simple:
"Well, they're pretty much the same, really" 

[from his point of view]

 

 

[scook17 247]

On 23/10/2022, 18:04:03, Feierabend said:

Not if you are in Brandenburg. They are very rigid, as my 70 yr old OH found when he entered pre-Brexshit. He passed the oral and citizenship components but not the written. Despite being highly qualified  on the scientific side of things he finds language learning extremely difficult. As he ruefully says, it took him three goes way back yonder to get through the then English O-Level requirement for uni entry!

Berlin was apparently more lenient as some of my colleagues found.

 

The UK has/had at that time a 'Comprehensive' education system, so they lumped the bright kids and the dumb kids into the same school and then separated them into classes based on ability. I did ok in this environment, but failed both my native language, English and the one foreign language everyone was required to study, French. I passed all other subjects I took (mostly technical) was able to attend an IT based course at an F.E. college (16-18 year olds). In this entirely different environment, where people choose to be there, and competed with one another, I did very well and finished in the top 10% of the class. 

 

During that time, I decided I want to go to university, something I had never though about as a kid. I could not go to university without certain compulsory subjects such as English. I therefore repeated my English GCSE's (GCSE's replaced O-Levels by my time) whilst I was at F.E. college, and with the help of some special tutoring, obtained the necessary grades to enter university at 18.

 

After graduation, like most people in the UK at the time, I needed to work, so went into the workforce and worked many years in the UK. The UK adopted globalization, which in turn meant all jobs over time migrated to Asia or India. I came entirely by chance to Germany, through a English company partnership with a large German company. Was interesting to notice a few things. The Germans didn't make the mistake of the west and were not outsourcing jobs, hollowing out their professional classes, but were investing in people and valued those with technical qualifications.

 

In the UK there is little point, in terms of income of having a masters degree, so most people finish with a bachelors at 21-23 years old depending on the subject, having started at 18. In Germany many people had Dip.Ing or Dipl.xxx, or were Dr.xxxx etc., so in other words Masters or Ph.D. graduates. It was the norm in the field I work in. I took a part time course here in Germany with the UK Open University, taught in English to have an equivalent qualification above degree level. As this was in Business/Management several years later I enrolled in another masters course in IT with a US university which I could study online. It required that I completed only the last semester, and the final exams, in Boston, so I obtained a second masters degree, but this time in IT and updated my IT skills considerably as a lot moves in this field.

 

As I own/manage an IT business, both management and IT masters helped considerably in doing that job better. Everything German is still handled by a girl I employ as a translator. But it is a pain sometimes with the social side of life, not being able to speak German. You obviously pick up some, but I would guess I would not even pass A1 at this time. I remember in the bookshop glancing through the kids (4-5 yrs) books they use to teach German kids German, the ones with the pictures. I had not a clue how to read even this level. To get from this to B2 seems an impossibility. Looking up B2, this is A-Level Grade A-C (https://students.leeds.ac.uk/info/1000026/get_ready_to_go/747/languages) where as I have A2 in my native language.

 

As a British guy who was here before breixt, I have permanent residence and can stay, only in Germany, for as long as I wish, providing I don't actually leave. With the Germans about to stop the only one passport viewpoint soon, it seems anyway, I could actually apply for German citizenship if I could pass the language test. 

 

However, I asked about routes to obtaining EU citizenship, other than with learning German, as I have no affinity for any particular country. I see it just as a travel document. An foreigner who becomes a German citizen is still first and foremost someone from the country in which they grew up, and this will never change, no matter which passport they hold.

 

Seems the choice is to move to Ireland, live there an apply for Irish citizenship or try to learn German to the necessary standard.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.

[Fietsrad 385]

You are smarter (or more successful) than me. I managed to learn German. You could try listening to radio or courses in German while doing something else.

 

What about shopping, visiting the doctor etc? Surely you do understand some German already.

[Chelski 1,438]

4 hours ago, scook17 said:

Everything German is still handled by a girl I employ as a translator.

 

Oh dear...

 

4 hours ago, scook17 said:

Everything German is still handled by a female employee who works as a translator and is a valued member of the team.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

4 hours ago, scook17 said:

But it is a pain sometimes with the social side of life, not being able to speak German.

 

Really? Perhaps its more your closed attitude in general, rather than your unwillingness to learn the native language of the country you work and reside in.

 

As an aside, I left school with no qualifications. Built a successful career in the UK and then moved to Germany 16 years ago. No language skills. So I studied. Immersed myself in all things German.

 

Built up a new business, sold it at a profit and then retired. To work part-time in a Kita. Teaching German kids.

 

Make the effort.