Insults in social media

[jeba 4,347]

A recent court ruling which I´m posting as a reminder for those it may be relevant for:

Quote

If a person is insulted on a social media platform by an anonymous user, this gives rise to an obligation to provide information on the part of the platform operator pursuant to Section 21 (2) and (3) TTDSG for the purpose of enforcing civil law claims. Neither the severity of the infringement nor a concrete explanation of how civil claims of the person concerned are to be enforced is required.

 

Deepl translation from https://www.kostenlose-urteile.de/OLG-Karlsruhe_14-W-6122-Wx_Beleidigung-ueber-Social-Media-Plattform-durch-anonymen-Nutzer-begruendet-Auskunftspflicht-des-Plattformbetreibers.news32264.htm

[Krieg 14,926]

And the website mostly does not know the identity and address of the person.    The only way would be to implement KYC in every website in the world. 

[Chelski 1,439]

7 hours ago, Krieg said:

And the website mostly does not know the identity and address of the person. 

 

It doesn't need to be, and @jeba is correct.

 

Scenario:

 

1. TT poster objects to an insult on the board and goes to the cops and raises a civil complaint.

2. Cops contact TT Admin and they are legally required to provide the IP address of the insulter.

3. Cops contact ISP re IP address.

4. Techie cop does magic re IP address and finds real personal details of insulter.

5. Insulter gets a knock on the door from the cops...

 

I'm not bullshitting; I've seen it happen.

 

The reality is of course, that anyone with half a brain knows not to seriously insult people online, whilst the other half of their brain can take the non serious knockbacks too. It's what forums are all about. Debate. Discussion.

 

Play nicely people.

[Krieg 14,926]

Sure, but that's not what the Urteil in the link is about 

[Chelski 1,439]

Really?

 

Quote

If a person is insulted on a social media platform by an anonymous user, this gives rise to an obligation to provide information on the part of the platform operator pursuant to Section 21 (2) and (3) TTDSG for the purpose of enforcing civil law claims.

 

 

 

[Krieg 14,926]

The Urteil is about a civil case in which the person went to Youtube to ask for the identity of the insulter.  The judge decided it is reasonable and they had to provide the name an address.  The judge as well decided it is reasonable not to have that information in the first place 

 

What you described is a criminal case.  Police do not take part in civil cases.

 

Of course I am not a lawyer and I can be wrong.

[Chelski 1,439]

As I can be.

 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct/guide us.

[Metall 14,513]

Let's put it this way - I used to work for a DSL provider in Germany. When the police called and requested user details for a specified time and IP address, I was under strict orders from my CEO to answer their questions and give them the information. Just saying. IANAL.

[keith2011 2,579]

Hmm I must remember to turn on my vpn if that pesky Mr.Bear ever turns up again.

[BayrischDude 2,071]

10 hours ago, Chelski said:

anyone with half a brain knows not to seriously insult people online

Meant with all 'seriousness'...  how is a serious insult defined or types of serious insults?  Are you referring to 'defamation' or something else?

[razorsandroses 430]

*laughing heartily* Go ahead! I use a VPN based in Panama that openly prides itself for ignoring IP information requests from foreign law enforcements if the alleged offense does not involve children or terrorism. Let the German police ask away.

 

All blame aside, I think I'd have more important things to do with my time than go whining to the police because someone on Facebook hurt my widdle feelings. Block them and move on.

[Chelski 1,439]

6 hours ago, razorsandroses said:

*laughing heartily* Go ahead! I use a VPN based in Panama that openly prides itself for ignoring IP information requests from foreign law enforcements if the alleged offense does not involve children or terrorism. Let the German police ask away.

 

Yep, I sense the Panama VPN will leave the Police clueless with no idea how to find you if necessary.

 

[Elljay 518]

Oh yes, I remember all the "Panama registered " ships. To avoid having to allow the crew to join a union and to avoid taxes and safety protocols. 

[razorsandroses 430]

1 hour ago, Chelski said:

 

Yep, I sense the Panama VPN will leave the Police clueless with no idea how to find you if necessary.

 

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what a VPN is and how it works.

[Mr.Bear 1,037]

On 10/20/2022, 1:18:32, keith2011 said:

Hmm I must remember to turn on my vpn if that pesky Mr.Bear ever turns up again.

 

Yep, you should do that.

And don't forget to get your booster.

[Krieg 14,926]

10 hours ago, razorsandroses said:

Clearly you have absolutely no idea what a VPN is and how it works.

 

I assume @Chelski is making a point that a VPN is no protection if you volunteer personal data.   For example, you might use the same nickname in other Internet platforms and in one of them you have enough personal information to find your real name.

 

And nowadays there are techniques to identify you even if you are behind a VPN if you are not careful enough.  You can be pinpointed crossing information from cookies and advertisement user IDs if you use the same browser in the same PC for different things and/or you do not use incognito mode.

[razorsandroses 430]

6 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

I assume @Chelski is making a point that a VPN is no protection if you volunteer personal data.   For example, you might use the same nickname in other Internet platforms and in one of them you have enough personal information to find your real name.

 

And nowadays there are techniques to identify you even if you are behind a VPN if you are not careful enough.  You can be pinpointed crossing information from cookies and advertisement user IDs if you use the same browser in the same PC for different things and/or you do not use incognito mode.

Which is where *gasp* Tor browser comes into play. A browser built specifically for anonymity and privacy. 

 

Anything else? Because we can do this all day.

[Metall 14,513]

15 minutes ago, razorsandroses said:

Which is where *gasp* Tor browser comes into play. A browser built specifically for anonymity and privacy. 

 

Anything else? Because we can do this all day.

Yes, we can play this all day long, as the Tor network already is filled with law enforcement and tax office nodes looking for people like you. This started years ago.

Do keep up.

[razorsandroses 430]

2 hours ago, Metall said:

Yes, we can play this all day long, as the Tor network already is filled with law enforcement and tax office nodes looking for people like you. This started years ago.

Do keep up.

Which is why you log into your VPN first (which is paid for with cryptocurrency) and the use the Tor browser...for  those who are doing something seriously illegal, you chain the VPNs.

 

And again...you really think some company out in some country all the way across the globe that openly boasts about ignoring law info requests for things like copyright infringement  and DDoS attacks are going to give a rat's ass about the police in Germany asking for info because someone got called a poopyhead on Facebook? Keep dreaming.

 

Your move. 

[catjones 1,658]

germans have laws for everything.  every thing.  enforcing those laws for everything is another matter.  if every infraction was investigated, the country would be spending billions,  meanwhile, when someone doesn't get their rent deposit back or their heat turned on, simple law enforcement is nowhere to be seen.  It's known as appearing to do something when nothing is done.

Precision is not Perfection.