Should I use my academic title in official conversations?

[bobMorane 52]

I obtained my doctoral degree from a German university a few years ago. So, in official academic correspondences, I sign the letters as Dr. Eng. Smith. But of course, I am usually Bob in typical social interactions. However, I'm not sure what is the German culture regarding using the titles when it comes to more official settings. For example, what is culturally accepted when I call a Praxis, when I introduce myself at my kid's school meeting, or when I write letters/emails to authorities? 

I heard that titles are important in German culture (and to me as well), but of course, I do not want to look or sound arrogant. 

[silty1 3,597]

9 minutes ago, bobMorane said:

I heard that titles are important in German culture (and to me as well), but of course, I do not want to look or sound arrogant. 

 

Are you Canadian?

 

Flaunt it. The Germans do. 

[LukeSkywalker 7,595]

4 minutes ago, silty1 said:

Flaunt it. The Germans do. 

Yeah, really over-the-top is Dr.Dr. if you have 2 doctoral degrees.

[MikeMelga 7,240]

For me it sounds arrogant, but I'm not German.

 

In my company, 15% have a PHD, so nobody, nobody calls each other by title. First name only.

I can't recall any German ever stating their title upon presentation.

[PandaMunich 16,562]

22 minutes ago, bobMorane said:

I obtained my doctoral degree from a German university a few years ago. So, in official academic correspondences, I sign the letters as Dr. Eng. Smith.

Before you do that, please have a look at your Promotionsurkunde, I think you will find that you are a Dr.-Ing.

You can only call yourself what is written in your Promotionsurkunde, nothing else, you don't get to translate it to English.

 

 

22 minutes ago, bobMorane said:

For example, what is culturally accepted when I call a Praxis, when I introduce myself at my kid's school meeting, or when I write letters/emails to authorities?

Use it.

[fraufruit 41,928]

My opinion. I'd rather just be Fr./Hr. Soandso than risk coming off as arrogant in every day situations. When writing to authorities, sure, use it. What do they call you at work?

 

Never impresses me. Sounds arrogant. 

[mtbiking 1,877]

I use mine when writing to any kind of Beamter or utility provider. It’s a sad truth that it more than compensates for the subpar grammar and/or accent. The treatment you get is better.

 

My wife is German and uses hers nevertheless, but then she’s a real doctor 

[knotheadusc 521]

LOL... when we sued our former landlady, her lawyer wrote to my husband and referenced, as a witness, ex landlady's husband, a man we had always simply called Axel, as "Dr. Professor Med. so and so"... It was funny, too, because Axel did almost all of the repairs in the rental house, and had been the one to "repair" the awning that collapsed after a stiff breeze and helped contribute to our filing the lawsuit.  Using that title simply proved that Axel wasn't an awning repair expert and probably shouldn't have been attempting to fix it.

 

I suppose my husband could have been just as pompous and used his military rank and educational credentials, as well as mine... but we were not looking to impress or intimidate.  We just didn't want our Kaution ripped off by a greedy person who thought she could get over because we're Americans, and my husband is a very nice person.  Fortunately, we did prevail, in spite of the lofty academic credentials and above reproach witnessing of our ex landlady's husband.

 

[optimista 5,839]

On balance, in non-social settings I would use it. You can still revert to Bob. Difficult the other way round. 

 

Also, like it or not, people are judgmental. I can cite an instance where I cited no qualification on the form filling box crossing bumf because my degree was completely irrelevant to the situation. I was quite taken aback by the noticeable change in attitude from some pompous idiots who then presumed I literally had no academic qualifications and was not of their standing. Never bothered to enlighten them...

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Maybe think twice about putting it in your passport. My partner did it because she thought she'd get better treatment, but all it did was make her first name non-regular with the added Dr. in the passport, and this sometimes causes hassles with the systems. She's a psychologist so she's not a medical doctor, and now the worry is also that she'd be called on the plane to help with a patient, hehe.

[mtbiking 1,877]

15 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

Maybe think twice about putting it in your passport. My partner did it because she thought she'd get better treatment, but all it did was make her first name non-regular with the added Dr. in the passport, and this sometimes causes hassles with the systems. She's a psychologist so she's not a medical doctor, and now the worry is also that she'd be called on the plane to help with a patient, hehe.

I assume she’ll be off the hook as soon as inbetween the gasps of pain she inquires about the relationship between him and his mother..

[bobMorane 52]

Well, my concern is not about my workplace or normal social events. In the company, I'm Bob, my boss is John, and the CEO is Tom. Simple like that!  

 

Honestly, I mostly want to use my title to prevent being mistreated at authorities, offices, schools, Praxis, or anywhere that I should be worried about my rights as an immigrant who looks like an immigrant and speaks German like an immigrant!

[tor 16,866]

My Dr. title is listed on al my official documents, at the auslaenderbehoerde, and on my Bahn card, any school or theater I work for, etc.

 

When I write an official letter, it is in my signature. 

 

You don't need to flaunt it or introduce yourself as Dr Bob, your reputation will precede you  

[HEM 11,068]

I only use mine (MSc) on my visiting card & in the Steuererklärung (my wife is Dipl. Ing.).  Panda may well state that I should not 

 

2 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

She's a psychologist so she's not a medical doctor, and now the worry is also that she'd be called on the plane to help with a patient, hehe.

 

Earlier this week a retired friend of mine told the story: she had been on a KLM flight to Nashville with a group of about 10 people when the dreaded call came "is there a Dr. on board"?

Hoping that on a large plane there would be someone more suitable she first dissappeared into the loo...

On exiting there was another call (& everyone in the group knew she was a Dr.) so she went to what was obviously a small group around a rather overweight woman with apparent chest pains.

 

There was already a psychistrist there (totally useless).  My friend said that the big problem is due to the background noise you cannot hear

anything via a stethoscope, cannot hear the pulse to take blood pressure etc.

 

Anyhow my friend said "I'm a gynocologist & cannot really do much here" to which the woman said "I'd rather be having a baby than this pain".

The crew asked "must we land" to which my friend said that she could not do anything so yes.  Which they did (either Goose Bay or Gander where there was a military hospital).

 

Big delay & costs to the airline (overnight stop etc) - on arriving at destination she was presented with a magnum bottle champagne by the crew (which the group drank on reaching their hotel) and upon return home there was a letter of thanks from the airline.

[PandaMunich 16,562]

58 minutes ago, HEM said:

I only use mine (MSc) on my visiting card & in the Steuererklärung (my wife is Dipl. Ing.).  Panda may well state that I should not 

Yes, anything below a Dr. Titel is not used when addressing people, i.e. with your M.Sc., you just get called "Herr" = "Mister": https://www.haufe.de/finance/steuern-finanzen/business-knigge-kommunikation/kommunikations-knigge-begruessung-anrede-und-vorstellen_190_508064.html

• Die akademischen Titel Professor und Doktor sind Bestandteil der Anrede; dabei wird jeweils nur der höchste Titel genannt, also Herr Professor Müller, selbst wenn der komplette Titel beispielsweise Prof. Dr. med. Dr. med. dent. lautet.
  Bachelor, Master oder Diplom-Ingenieur sind in Deutschland nicht Bestandteil der Anrede.
   
• The academic titles Professor and Doctor are used when addressing someone; only the highest title is mentioned, i.e. Mr. Professor Müller, even if the complete title is, for example, Prof. Dr. med. Dr. med. dent.
  Bachelor's, Master's or Diplom-Ingenieur are not part of the form of address in Germany.

[HEM 11,068]

I don't say "I am Hotel Echo Mike MSc" when speaking to people for the first time!

[catjones 1,658]

Who's going to dispute you?  The "Doktor" police?  Are they investigating all those germans using the prefix?  Are you required to carry your diploma?  What an affected practice.

[PandaMunich 16,562]

40 minutes ago, catjones said:

Who's going to dispute you?  The "Doktor" police?  Are they investigating all those germans using the prefix?

If someone claims to be a Dr. (which is an academic degree) and is not, that is a crime in Germany.

And people know that.

So no, I don't think there are very many Germans claiming to be a Dr. who are not really a Dr.

 

See §132a German Criminal Code: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p1403

• Section 132a
  Abuse of titles, professional designations and symbols

  (1) Whoever, without being authorised to do so,

  1.  uses domestic or foreign titles of office, academic degrees, honorific titles or public honours,

  2.  uses the professional designation of ‘physician’, ‘dentist’, ‘psychological psychotherapist’, ‘child or youth psychotherapist’, ‘psychotherapist’, ‘veterinarian’, ‘pharmacist’, ‘lawyer’ (Rechtsanwalt), ‘patent attorney’, ‘certified accountant’, ‘sworn auditor’, ‘tax consultant’ (Steuerberater) or ‘tax representative’ (Steuerbevollmächtigter),

  3.  uses the title of ‘publicly appointed expert’ or

  4.  wears domestic or foreign uniforms, official dress or official insignia

  incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine.

Here is a case where someone falsely claiming to be a Dr. was sentenced to a 8,000€ criminal fine (100 Tagessätze): https://www-lto-de.translate.goog/recht/nachrichten/n/ag-frankfurt-urteil-juergen-richter-awo-geschaeftsfuehrer-geldstrafe-doktortitel/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

For other such cases, please see here: https://dejure-org.translate.goog/dienste/lex/StGB/132a/1.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Fietsrad 385]

Doctor = might be a medical physician, might be something quite different. You could call yourself a 'physician' instead, if you are a medical person whether you are a doctor or not.

 

In the DDR people qualified as Dipl Med, medical physicians, but without a Doktor title. Some "DM" are still practising.

 

In the DDR there were Promotion A and B, did you have to do both to be a 'Doctor'?

[jeba 4,341]

24 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

 You could call yourself a 'physician' instead, if you are a medical person whether you are a doctor or not.

No, that's incorrect. You're not even allowed to call yourself a physician (Arzt) if you're a Dr. Med. but don't have permission to practise medicine. That permission  can be refused even if you studied successfully.