My natural gas rate doubled

[HEM 11,160]

2 hours ago, Rushrush said:

conspiracy theorists believe this is the work of the US to get Germans to buy pricey and profitable LNG from them while at the same time getting all that industry to relocate to the US.  

 

More likely the intention of the Klima De-activisten who would prefer just to have green fields (with no cows).

[Krieg 15,027]

2 hours ago, Rushrush said:

How do heat pumps help us get away from fossil fuels faster, they might be more efficient but you'll still need O&G to produce it, and the way the Germans are going we'll be burning coal till the cows come home.

 

I assume you are trolling, but anyway ... are you aware that electricity can be generated from renewables? 

 

Heat pumps multiply electricity with a ~ 4:1 factor.

[murphaph 9,814]

He is trolling. Mr. Bear vanishes as his hobby horse thread was mercifully put out of its misery (thanks to whoever did that!) and two trolls who've been quiet for ages pop up to replace him the very same day.

[mako1 864]

6 hours ago, Rushrush said:

The real issue is businesses, there is a real risk of Germany de-industrialising, conspiracy theorists believe ...

 

There is no risk of Germany de-industrializing. Punkt.

[jeba 4,363]

On 18.10.2022, 19:47:42, mako1 said:

 

There is no risk of Germany de-industrializing. Punkt.

For energy-intensive lines of businesses like aluminium production, fertilisers or chemical industry the risk is very real.

[wien4ever 447]

On 10/17/2022, 9:42:01, jamiegw said:

 

The energiebedarfausweis is 221kWh/m2, however I understand that is created by a Schornsteinfeger walking around and looking at stuff rather than someone using equipment to take measurements of the building properties. 

 

 

Congrats on the house purchase! I'm finding those one-page energy estimates are bollocks, mine was also 230kWh/m2 or so, but the person didn't factor in that the Reiheneckhaus has insulation on the side wall and several other things they missed. So very similar situation to yours. My real usage is only 109kWh/m2 and we keep the house at 21 C. Before the energy crisis, we were paying 200 euros month for heating and electric. I would love to have a 50kWh or passivhaus but just cannot justify the expense (I have other goals like retiring early, and I don't expect my house to be an investment engine , just a place to live).

[scook17 281]

When measuring kwh/m2, how is m2 calculated? Is this living space or complete area. 

 

What would be typical for kfw70 house? Does kfw100 translate to so many kwh/m2?

[Frantic 72]

1 hour ago, scook17 said:

When measuring kwh/m2, how is m2 calculated? Is this living space or complete area. 

 

What would be typical for kfw70 house? Does kfw100 translate to so many kwh/m2?

 

Usually is the "heated space". That actually means all what is inside the roof and the external wall.

Even if a room is not heated, the heat will tend to cross the internal wall and door in order to reach that not heated room

[TurMech 180]

On 18.10.2022, 18:47:42, mako1 said:

 

There is no risk of Germany de-industrializing. Punkt.

 

I do believe there is such a risk. With 10 times higher energy prices, no German company can compete in the world market. In addition, Germany is getting unattractive for Fachkräfte everyday, where they say, they need more people coming to Germany to work. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TurMech said:

 

10 times higher energy prices, no German company can compete in the world market.

 

Wot? 10 times?

And isn't gas sold on the open market. If Germany are paying 10 times, so is everyone else.

[TurMech 180]

58 minutes ago, jamiegw said:

 

Wot? 10 times?

And isn't gas sold on the open market. If Germany are paying 10 times, so is everyone else.

US has its own energy and subsidizing it’s industry. Asian countries are buying Russian energy with a big discount!

[Guest]

Just now, TurMech said:

US has its own energy and subsidizing it’s industry. Asian countries are buying Russian energy with a big discount!

 

And where did you get the 10x higher energy prices from?

[PandaMunich 16,704]

22 minutes ago, jamiegw said:

And where did you get the 10x higher energy prices from?

See here: https://www-br-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/bayern/energieversorgung-werden-die-verbraucher-bei-strom-und-gas-abgezockt,TKY1kbE?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

• Manipulation of electricity prices on the exchange?
  The criticism from experts is directed less directly at the municipal utilities companies (Stadtwerke) as energy suppliers, but rather at the largest European trading place for electricity generated in the EU: the European Energy Exchange AG (EEX) in Leipzig.
  Here, energy suppliers have had to pay ten times as much for electricity in some cases in recent weeks.

  The financial expert Gerald Zmuegg denounces that a manipulation of demand on the exchange by speculators cannot be ruled out. "It is not completely clear to us outsiders whether all the electricity bought on the exchange is actually purchased by customers who urgently need the electricity or by other market participants such as banks who want to resell the electricity later at a higher price. This is something regulators should take a close look at."

  
  Regulators should examine electricity prices
  Sebastian Schwenen, who holds a professorship for energy markets at the Technical University of Munich, is of a similar opinion. In his opinion, an overarching review of the electricity market would be appropriate. At the same time, he takes some of the pressure off the municipal utilities companies. After all, he says, they are also exposed to sharply rising prices on the markets.

  "You can't talk about rip-offs across the board. It has to be examined on a case-by-case basis. Rip-offs are not impossible. However, the purchase prices for producers and suppliers are very high at the moment. That means they have to buy energy at horrendous prices on the wholesale market and have to pass these costs on to the customers somehow.

   

[MikeMelga 7,312]

Careful there, most German industries are not highly dependent on energy costs. German products in general have great margins, they can absorve some gas prices.

I still think most of the panic is due to a handful of companies like BASF or BAYER having to stop production. Well, fuck them, pretty sure they made political lobby over the years to get russian pipelines!

[jeba 4,363]

5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Careful there, most German industries are not highly dependent on energy costs. German products in general have great margins, they can absorve some gas prices.

I still think most of the panic is due to a handful of companies like BASF or BAYER having to stop production. Well, fuck them, pretty sure they made political lobby over the years to get russian pipelines!

Internationally active companies like BASF and Bayer can simply move production to countries where gas prices are cheaper and where they already have production facilities. German jobs will be lost anyway, though. Smaller companies like e.g. component suppliers to the car industry will not have that option.

[mako1 864]

I will believe the bavarian  politicians are taking the current energy crisis seriously when they start making wind turbine installation easier (10H) and allow the new lines to deliver cheap wind energy from the north to BMW. If industry was concerned, those requiring electricity, and not gas would be pushing for that.

[scook17 281]

On 21/10/2022, 09:52:14, PandaMunich said:

See here: https://www-br-de.translate.goog/nachrichten/bayern/energieversorgung-werden-die-verbraucher-bei-strom-und-gas-abgezockt,TKY1kbE?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

• Manipulation of electricity prices on the exchange?
  The criticism from experts is directed less directly at the municipal utilities companies (Stadtwerke) as energy suppliers, but rather at the largest European trading place for electricity generated in the EU: the European Energy Exchange AG (EEX) in Leipzig.
  Here, energy suppliers have had to pay ten times as much for electricity in some cases in recent weeks.

  The financial expert Gerald Zmuegg denounces that a manipulation of demand on the exchange by speculators cannot be ruled out. "It is not completely clear to us outsiders whether all the electricity bought on the exchange is actually purchased by customers who urgently need the electricity or by other market participants such as banks who want to resell the electricity later at a higher price. This is something regulators should take a close look at."

  
  Regulators should examine electricity prices
  Sebastian Schwenen, who holds a professorship for energy markets at the Technical University of Munich, is of a similar opinion. In his opinion, an overarching review of the electricity market would be appropriate. At the same time, he takes some of the pressure off the municipal utilities companies. After all, he says, they are also exposed to sharply rising prices on the markets.

  "You can't talk about rip-offs across the board. It has to be examined on a case-by-case basis. Rip-offs are not impossible. However, the purchase prices for producers and suppliers are very high at the moment. That means they have to buy energy at horrendous prices on the wholesale market and have to pass these costs on to the customers somehow.

   

On 21/10/2022, 04:50:20, TurMech said:

 

I do believe there is such a risk. With 10 times higher energy prices, no German company can compete in the world market. In addition, Germany is getting unattractive for Fachkräfte everyday, where they say, they need more people coming to Germany to work. 

 

Then its fairly easy, just regulate who can be buyers. Not financial companies, but just those who need the commodity.

[scook17 281]

On 21/10/2022, 15:35:57, mako1 said:

I will believe the bavarian  politicians are taking the current energy crisis seriously when they start making wind turbine installation easier (10H) and allow the new lines to deliver cheap wind energy from the north to BMW. If industry was concerned, those requiring electricity, and not gas would be pushing for that.

 

I read an article today, about how difficult it was to connect a solar plant in the Uk. Honestly as a home owner, it was a right royal pita to 'register' a solar generation 'plant' (a few panels on the roof).

 

The vested interests go to every effort to make it a pita. Unless the government says no, it remains difficult for most people.

[jeba 4,363]

On 21.10.2022, 09:42:17, jamiegw said:

 

Wot? 10 times?

And isn't gas sold on the open market. If Germany are paying 10 times, so is everyone else.

Gas can't be delivered by Amazon. In order to buy gas you need either pipelines or shipping and liquefaction capacity. Both are in short supply.

[Krieg 15,027]

9 hours ago, jeba said:

Gas can't be delivered by Amazon.

 

Gas from Amazon